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Dri 2.0

Dri hasn't lived up to anything as of yet. This year is make or break. If he doesn't improve a lot, then he just isn't going to amouint to much. I'm one for "time will tell" and am willing to see. But his time is a little shorter than the player himself.


Salute the nation
 
deljzc said:
Even an above average return man isn't worth a 3rd round pick.

The fact Tomlin discusses Archer in those terms shows his lack of draft pick value understanding.

I could give a flying **** about a few yards per return yet somehow it's a ******* obsession with Tombert. Goes all the way back to picking Sepulveda in their first draft together.

Dopes.
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I would have happily taken Hester with a third.
 
Cope said:
I would have happily taken Hester with a third.
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Jacoby Jones sure helped the Ravens during their Super Bowl run ... He was a third round pick of the Texans. He did give the Texans/Ravens a little bit as a receiver though.
 
www.Invalid Link - Check SN Home Pa...ore-than-find-a-returner-to-improve-kickoffs/

No no no. It was all Dri.. Hanratty said so
 
I wonder if Dri prefers the term, "little people".


:cool:
 
Are you going to say the same thing over and over again without being provoked? Or can we expect some new insight?

Btw, you are arguing that the previous third round pick by Tomlin did a better job on returns than the present third round pick of Tomlin and using that as an example that Tomlin doesn't make good picks in the third round. j/s
 
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Hanratty said:
So you agree we wasted a 3rd rounder on Archer? Some idiot was blaming Archer's struggles on the blocking, I refuted it, is that OK with you to actually talk football on this board ? Don't read if you get tired of talking football, make your life easier.
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1. Nope. I'll wait to see what happens this year before I say the pick was a waste. Did he perform well last year? No. So, the arrow isn't pointed in a positive direction for him. However, even if we were to take the side that Archer is a bust, you are supporting your statement that Tomlin makes bad picks in the third round by stating that Tomlin's third round pick in 2014 (Archer) was outperformed by Tomlin's third round pick in 2013 (Wheaton). Your example doesn't exactly support your statement. I

2. I have no problem discussing football or reading about football. The point was that your last post was essentially the same as your previous post, and it came unsolicited. So, I was wondering if, within all your football talk, you would be moving on to a new point or if we could look forward to endless reiterations of the same theme.

3. In essence, your logic is flawed and you keep repeating it. Kinda like what you are saying Tomlin does.
 
Well, if you don't see the flaw, you don't see the flaw. It's not especially important to me. Just thought I'd point something out to you before some of your "internet frienemies" go total ape **** on you and it starts one of those endless arguments and name calling sessions. Interestingly enough, I find that you have taken the opportunity to actually try to start .... an endless argument with name calling .. lol :rolleyes:

Have a good time repeating your mantra in every thread Han. Engaging in a mudslinging, name calling etc. type of argument with you is not high on my list of things to do this evening.
 
Hanratty said:
Good for you, the passive aggressive approach is not working for you no matter how hard you try.You were wrong that I post unprovoked and you are wrong on your analysis of archer, two for two, great job.
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Thanks for your opinion.
 
Hanratty said:
Get that last word in or try to scold me for correctly pointing out Archer's many faults, keep trying to have it both ways, intelligence is not your friend.
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Thanks for your opinion. :p
 
You don't need to be a bully to voice opinions here.

Last year I sat in the end zone at the steeler games, been doing it since 2007. I'm not watching the sideways TV angle that doesn't show blocking lanes. Last year was by far the most piss poor KO blocking I've ever witnessed. Partly because rules don't allow wedges or more than 2 players to block together, and partly because they were young back there on the KO blocking squad. They did improve as the season went on, but don't say inserting Wheaton was the reason. He did fine, and he had better blocking than Archer.

Heck, we didn't even come close to getting a KO TD this year, so our blocking mixed with our returners were below the line.
 
Wheaton was more versatile, that is why he stayed with him, but his blocking also improved. I never made it a KO returner issue, it was clearly a blocking issue, that I could see and you could not. To make a blanket statement that the KO blocking wasn't an issue, was my disagreement.

Wheaton isn't making the pro bowl on those numbers. Not even close. With better blocking, he may be able to improve his consistency.

Want to do a game by game metric of all the northern teams and their ability to optimize KO yardage as the season progresses? It's because the weather gets colder as the season moves on. Colder air, shorter kickoffs, and a better chance to return a kick. KO numbers should improve for all cold weather teams as the season progresses.
 
Name me the last "pro bowl" kick off returner to win the Super Bowl?

Kickoff return average is completely pointless in today's NFL when 50% of all KO's get touch backed anyhow.

Again, as I said about 5 pages back, the team had Wheaton (potentially top-15 KO returner) and Brown (top-10 punt returner) on the roster yet somehow our ***-backwards analysis of Archer was he was going to somehow "improve" these into what? It doesn't add up. It isn't logical. It's all smoke and mirrors.

Tomlin and Colbert are just spouting bullshit and the smarter fans are seeing right through it.

We spent a top-100 pick in what everyone at the time (including our GM) said was a deep draft on a guy that MIGHT get 3-4 touches on offense a game and a "returner" that was going to fix a problem that never existed on this team in the first place.

This has nothing to do with Archer and everything to do with the lack of analysis and smarts Colbert and Tomlin used in deciding to select Archer in the first place. The name on the back of the jersey means nothing in this case. It was just a completely frivolous, stupid, illogical use of a draft resource. That's really the end of the story. Colbert did the same thing with Cowher in the Willie Reid pick. Reid's injury didn't make that pick bad, it was the illogical thinking Reid was going to improve something that isn't as valuable as coaches/GM's think.

Fool me once (Reid) shame on me. Fool me twice means our GM is stubborn, doesn't learn from his mistakes, and ignores mountains of empirical evidence against his old-school thinking on special teams.
 
And for the record I included Archer in the suckfest. They all sucked. archer Blount Wheaton and the blocking. Just because Wheaton was slightly better doesn't mean he or the blocking was better. The issue was is bigger then Archer. The whole unit needs to improve. Which is why I posted numerous articles saying just that. Now someone with a Birdseye view(Cope) says the same. Yet this guys still insists it's one person smh.
 
Here are ALL the KO returns for the Steelers this year (in sequence):

Archer - 0 yards deep - 12 yards (illegal block on Steelers) - end result 6 yard line
Archer - 7 yards deep - 17 yards - end result 10 yard line

Wheaton - 3 yard line - 11 yard return - end result 14 yard line

Archer - 0 yards deep - 23 yards (holding on Steelers) - end result 13 yard line
Archer - 1 yard deep - 13 yards - end result 12 yard line

Blount - 0 yards deep - 25 yard return (offsides on TB) - end result 30 yard line

Archer - 6 yards deep - 20 yard return - end result 14 yard line
Archer - 6 yards deep - 22 yard return - end result 16 yard line
Archer - 3 yards deep - 22 yard return - end result 19 yard line

Archer - 3 yard line - 13 yard return - end result 16 yard line
Archer - 1 yard deep - 19 yard return - end result 18 yard line

Blount - 1 yard line - 13 yard return - end result 14 yard line

Blount - 2 yards deep - 15 yard return - end result 13 yard line

Blount - 0 yards deep - 29 yard return - end result 29 yard line

Blount - 1 yard line - 21 yard return - end result 22 yard line
Wheaton - 2 yards deep - 23 yard return - end result 21 yard line
Wheaton - 4 yards deep - 34 yard return - end result 30 yard line
Wheaton - 5 yards deep - 25 yard return - end result 20 yard line

Wheaton - 0 yards deep - 32 yard return - end result 32 yard line
Wheaton - 5 yards deep - 30 yard return - end result 10 yard line (holding on Steelers)
Wheaton - 2 yards deep - 27 yard return - end result 25 yard line
Wheaton - 2 yard line - 18 yard return - end result 20 yard line
Wheaton - 6 yard line - 22 yard return - end result 28 yard line

Wheaton - 2 yard line - 41 yard return - end result 43 yard line
Wheaton - 3 yards deep - 20 yard return - end result 17 yard line
Wheaton - 0 yards deep - 26 yard return - end result 26 yard line

Wheaton - 4 yards deep - 19 yard return - end result 15 yard line

Wheaton - 6 yards deep - 32 yard return - end result 26 yard line
Wheaton - 0 yards deep - 18 yard return - end result 18 yard line

Wheaton - 0 yards deep - 15 yard return - end result 15 yard line
Wheaton - 4 yards deep - 29 yard return - end result 25 yard line
Wheaton - 1 yard deep - 26 yard return - end result 25 yard line

Wheaton - 2 yards deep - 21 yard return - end result 19 yard line
Wheaton - 5 yards deep - 31 yard return - end result 26 yard line


There is just not enough evidence that suggests that the "blocking" is the only reason for the drastic improvement in our KO returns. Before Wheaton (both Blount/Archer) we got at or past the 20 yard line on 3 out of 11 returns (all by Blount).

Once Wheaton became the primary returner he got at or past the 20 yard line on HIS FIRST STRAIGHT 8 ATTEMPTS (not counting the penalty)!!! I'm sorry, the blocking effect just cannot account for that immediate success. That's on Wheaton. And overall, Wheaton got at or past the 20 yard line on 13 out of 19 tries (starting 8 of 9 (penalty) and finishing 5 of 10). Again, if the blocking was consistently getting better and the primary source of improvement, why did Wheaton get worse towards the end of the season again?

Going from 3 out of 11 to 13 out of 19 tries is NOT just on the blocking. Wheaton was the primary factor (by far) and only a stubborn person would think or argue otherwise.

If anything, you can conclusively argue that Blount was better than Archer and that in itself tells you all you need to know.
 
I'm shocked that a 4-year NFL veteran, who lead his prior team in KR the year before, would be better than a rookie.
 
ark steel said:
I'm shocked that a 4-year NFL veteran, who lead his prior team in KR the year before, would be better than a rookie.
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So now returners have to sit for 2-3 years before they contribute on the Steelers?

Jesus Ark, that's just asinine.
 
deljzc said:
So now returners have to sit for 2-3 years before they contribute on the Steelers?

Jesus Ark, that's just asinine.
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Asinine is interpreting my statement like this.

Is that really, I mean, REALLY, what you think I meant?

A simple statement is that you would expect a 4-year veteran to be better than a rookie. The only way I would find that debatable is if you are discussing an undrafted 4-year veteran to a first round pick or somesuch, not to someone picked 97th in the draft.

No mention of whether someone should sit 2-3 years before they contribute on returns or anything of that sort. No mention as to whether I thought Dri was great or sucked or anything of that sort.. If you want to pick a fight, choose someone else.
 
The truth hurts.

Archer is a BAD returner. There is no debate on this. He showed nothing. Nothing in pre-season. Didn't make the cut as the punt returner. Stupidly forced into the kick return role by the coaches when someone else was better on the roster (Wheaton) and lost his job.

Good returners in the NFL NEVER start down his path in the NFL. Never. Show me another good returner in the NFL that started as poorly as Archer's rookie season. That lost both punt return duties AND kick return duties when drafted into the team for that specific purpose.

It doesn't happen.

There is no "magic light bulb" here folks. Archer is never going to be more than an average return man in the NFL. And it was a poor job by our scouts and GM and coach that they concluded otherwise based on his college film.

Film doesn't lie. Archer doesn't have "it" and you can debate the blocking and whatever other excuse you (and anyone else) wants to make for him, but when it comes to being a return man you either have "it" or you don't. It takes more than speed. There has to be a recklessness and wiggle and vision and anticipation to be a great one and Archer exhibited none of those traits - not in college, not in preseason, not in the regular season.

The coaches can keep trying to fit a square peg into a round hole and even a blind squirrel will find a nut occasionally (Archer WILL get a good return if given enough chances), but it's not there.

We'll just wait and see how long they hang onto him for his 3-4 wheel routes or shallow crosses a game as a running back/scat back.
 
kinda obvious to me that Dri was trying to use his speed to take kickoffs out when they were too deep.

Dri had 3 return attempts that were 6 yards or more deep.
Wheaton had just one.
Blount didn't have any return attempts that were more than 2-3 yards deep.

It could be differences in how the two were defended on the kickoff, as a plethora of events could happen from the time the ball leaves the tee to when the receiver catches it, though.
 
deljzc said:
The truth hurts.

Archer is a BAD returner. There is no debate on this. He showed nothing. Nothing in pre-season. Didn't make the cut as the punt returner. Stupidly forced into the kick return role by the coaches when someone else was better on the roster (Wheaton) and lost his job.

Good returners in the NFL NEVER start down his path in the NFL. Never. Show me another good returner in the NFL that started as poorly as Archer's rookie season. That lost both punt return duties AND kick return duties when drafted into the team for that specific purpose.

It doesn't happen.

There is no "magic light bulb" here folks. Archer is never going to be more than an average return man in the NFL. And it was a poor job by our scouts and GM and coach that they concluded otherwise based on his college film.

Film doesn't lie. Archer doesn't have "it" and you can debate the blocking and whatever other excuse you (and anyone else) wants to make for him, but when it comes to being a return man you either have "it" or you don't. It takes more than speed. There has to be a recklessness and wiggle and vision and anticipation to be a great one and Archer exhibited none of those traits - not in college, not in preseason, not in the regular season.

The coaches can keep trying to fit a square peg into a round hole and even a blind squirrel will find a nut occasionally (Archer WILL get a good return if given enough chances), but it's not there.

We'll just wait and see how long they hang onto him for his 3-4 wheel routes or shallow crosses a game as a running back/scat back.
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Dante Hall says hello
 
You can't discredit the blocking. In contrast it's a huge factor. This piss poor blocking got our long return to what the 43?. One return over the 40 all season, no single return over the 50. No TDs, not a chance to break a single run. Plus we get to see all the great holding calls that our crappy KO team are credited with early in the season.

I appreciate the numbers, but I also recall all month of Sept into October, watching the opponent's KO teams make consistant contact with our returners inside the ******* 10 yard line. That's *** blocking, especially if you as have a sub 4.3 returner.

I've never stated who was better, I am arguing fairness in assessing the KO return unit as a whole, since it's the worst I've seen as a steeler fan.
 
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