Dri 2.0

[Idioteque]

so now we're comparing Dri to DeSean Jackson? that's a bit preposterous, is it not?
this is what people mean when they say "moving the goal posts"

All I did was mention another slight guy who struggles with contact.

 

[Superman]

au contrare. DeSean Jackson was considered a first round talent the moment he stepped on the field at Cal.
it was only his mindset, or perceived mindset, that knocked him to the 2nd round.

much more difficult to judge a talent such as a guy from Kent State vs a guy from Cal.
not a knock on Deebo, either.

but, ****, all of us would have been fine taking Bryant where we took Dri. so, just like the **** with Woodley and Timmons, flip those in your head and let it go. spilled milk at this point.

 

[Steelerfan]

Speaking of spilled milk, Archer might wipe up the field this year and surprise everybody.

 

[bermudasteel]

Archer wasn't the pick that many wanted at that spot. They perceive him to be a luxury pick at a point in the draft where more pressing needs could have been filled. In reality, it's a valid point. And to be honest, most of those who are upset about the Archer pick have also been upset about the Landry Jones pick the year before.

With that said, he's here so I hope he is able to progress and do something with his 4 - 6 touches a game. He will never be an every down back. More than likely he'll never be an every down WR. I think the best that he could ever be is an Eric Metcalf type of player. I'd be extremely happy if he ever reaches that level in the Black and Gold.

Hold on, Buckaroo!!!!!!! I didn't have a problem, at all w/ the Archer pick - BUT, EVERYONE knows that I still despise the Landry Jones pick...

Maybe, Dri can play 3rd string QB instead - we'd get the same production at the very least?!?

 

[bermudasteel]

I see our resident hater is back. Great!!!

 

[SteelBuckeye]

You forgot Rainey. Sorry, I misread, you did say one Archer-like guy ... whom he worked into the offense. There was also LaRod Stephens-Howling ... before he got hurt anyway.

Did I miss anyone? Because as far as I can remember, Rainey, Archer and Stephens-Howling are the only backs of that size that have been brought in during the "Tombert" era. All were brought in after Haley's arrival. Perhaps it's just a coincidence.

Rainey was worked into the offense? 2.5 touches/game, hot damn, what a workhorse.

As I said, I agree with you. Haley clearly overruled Tomlin and MADE the team draft Archer - then he oddly chose to never play him. It all adds up.

Interesting that you took what I wrote and came to the conclusion that I said Rainey was worked into the offense. Clearly, that's not what I stated. Haley MADE the team draft Archer? Come on man, seriously? No. However, it's entirely possible that he made the "suggestion" that he wanted Archer. Especially since the team has been trying to add a small RB/WR hybrid ever since his arrival.

 

[Idioteque]

Interesting that you took what I wrote and came to the conclusion that I said Rainey was worked into the offense. Clearly, that's not what I stated

You said this, is why:

Or it was Haley's pick, seeing as how he has liked to employ similar sized players in his offense in the past. Maybe it was Colbert's pick. Possibly they all agreed on the pick. But hey, blaming EVERYTHING on Tomlin makes a better narrative right? Dude has made a lot of mistakes, for sure, but not EVERYTHING is his fault. "Tomblin is da debil" lol

Haley MADE the team draft Archer? Come on man, seriously? No. However, it's entirely possible that he made the "suggestion" that he wanted Archer. Especially since the team has been trying to add a small RB/WR hybrid ever since his arrival.

Right, but the attempts to deflect blame from Tomlin by suggesting Haley made the pick are kinda wonky. Haley had one tiny scatback type before joining the Steelers, and that somehow makes Archer HIS pick while poor bystander Tomlin is, as always, absolved of blame for a poor decision.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

You forgot Rainey. Sorry, I misread, you did say one Archer-like guy ... whom he worked into the offense. There was also LaRod Stephens-Howling ... before he got hurt anyway.

Did I miss anyone? Because as far as I can remember, Rainey, Archer and Stephens-Howling are the only backs of that size that have been brought in during the "Tombert" era. All were brought in after Haley's arrival. Perhaps it's just a coincidence.

You said this, is why:





Right, but the attempts to deflect blame from Tomlin by suggesting Haley made the pick are kinda wonky. Haley had one tiny scatback type before joining the Steelers, and that somehow makes Archer HIS pick while poor bystander Tomlin is, as always, absolved of blame for a poor decision.

Nope, not absolving Tomlin at all. To be clear, my belief is that the addition of Archer-like players over the past 3 years has been a Haley influence. Now, the who, the when or where of obtaining those players falls squarely on his superiors. Colbert and Rooney are part of that process, however Tomlin is his immediate superior and obviously has a very large say in who is drafted. As such, he deserves blame for draft misses as much as the others.

My point, and perhaps the sarcasm was lost, is that some on this board immediately play the "Tomlin card" whenever anything goes wrong or doesn't work out with this team. Hence "Tomlin is da debil".

 

[Vader]

My point, and perhaps the sarcasm was lost, is that some on this board immediately play the "Tomlin card" whenever anything goes wrong or doesn't work out with this team. Hence "Tomlin is da debil".

And some deflect any criticism to others. Like when several on here tried to say DL was responsible for the bad defensive drafts. Which is why when someone says Archer (and others) were drafted because of one player Haley had in KC. Really? A guy that played with Haley for 1 year? Rainey was drafted Haley's first year here. Anybody really believe he had any real say in that? It just doesn't make sense.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

And some deflect any criticism to others. Like when several on here tried to say DL was responsible for the bad defensive drafts. Which is why when someone says Archer (and others) were drafted because of one player Haley had in KC. Really? A guy that played with Haley for 1 year? Rainey was drafted Haley's first year here. Anybody really believe he had any real say in that? It just doesn't make sense.

So, it's your belief that Haley, the OC, had no "real" say in the drafting of a player who was supposed to play in his offense? Does that include the decision to bring in LSH and draft Dri? I find it odd that they would bring him in and charge him with running the offense but also leave him with no say in the acquisition of players who are imagined to be pieces of that offense.

My belief is that Haley does have a say in the acquisition of offensive talent. I don't think he has "final" say. But I believe his input is listened to, considered and played at least a part in the drafting of Rainey and Archer, along with bringing in LSH.

That said, I would imagine that Colbert, Tomlin and ARII make the final decisions. So, as I said, they all share partial blame for draft mistakes. jmho

 

[Vader]

So, it's your belief that Haley, the OC, had no "real" say in the drafting of a player who was supposed to play in his offense? Does that include the decision to bring in LSH and draft Dri? I find it odd that they would bring him in and charge him with running the offense but also leave him with no say in the acquisition of players who are imagined to be pieces of that offense.

My belief is that Haley does have a say in the acquisition of offensive talent. I don't think he has "final" say. But I believe his input is listened to, considered and played at least a part in the drafting of Rainey and Archer, along with bringing in LSH.

That said, I would imagine that Colbert, Tomlin and ARII make the final decisions. So, as I said, they all share partial blame for draft mistakes. jmho

The only time it is ever brought up is about Archer. Does Haley get credit for Beachum, DeCastro, Bell, Wheaton, and Bryant? Rainey was a 5th round pick and LSH (best I remember) wasn't even a draft pick. What makes anyone think that Haley has a hard on for small fast players? Just because he had 1 guy for 1 year?

That's just one of the problems with your scenario. The other is that you have everyone having a say. Football can't work that way. You think the RBs coach has a say? How about the STs coach? Who doesn't have a say? You have Rooney, Colbert, Tomlin, the DL, OC and who else?

The fact is that someone has to be responsible. I promise you one person has the final say. It can't work any other way. You'll never get 5 people to agree on a draft board. There is a leader and there is someone who makes the final decision. If not then maybe we've found out why they have failed at drafting since Tombert took over.

 

[ark steel]

So, it's your belief that Haley, the OC, had no "real" say in the drafting of a player who was supposed to play in his offense? Does that include the decision to bring in LSH and draft Dri? I find it odd that they would bring him in and charge him with running the offense but also leave him with no say in the acquisition of players who are imagined to be pieces of that offense.

My belief is that Haley does have a say in the acquisition of offensive talent. I don't think he has "final" say. But I believe his input is listened to, considered and played at least a part in the drafting of Rainey and Archer, along with bringing in LSH.

That said, I would imagine that Colbert, Tomlin and ARII make the final decisions. So, as I said, they all share partial blame for draft mistakes. jmho

I expect that I was the one most vocal on the idea that DL had been consulted on the higher picks. Of course, I never said he was to "blame", but that shouldn't stop anyone, I guess. My premise was only that DL was, most likely consulted and gave an, at least, "Meh, OK" approval of the picks. It seems unpossible to me that it would be any different. As you say, those higher on the pay scale than DL had final say, but a complete lack of consulting would be silly.

Add to that, it seems unlikely to me that DL would have stuck around very long if he hadn't been, at least consulted, regarding the picks and/or picks were made where he explicitly told them was not good players, it makes it more silly.

A man of 50+ years of experience, who knows he could get a job the next day, sticks around for 8 years with an HC who is shoving terrible D picks down his throat without even asking or had specifically said where no good. I think he would have left years ago.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

The only time it is ever brought up is about Archer. Does Haley get credit for Beachum, DeCastro, Bell, Wheaton, and Bryant? Rainey was a 5th round pick and LSH (best I remember) wasn't even a draft pick. What makes anyone think that Haley has a hard on for small fast players? Just because he had 1 guy for 1 year?

That's just one of the problems with your scenario. The other is that you have everyone having a say. Football can't work that way. You think the RBs coach has a say? How about the STs coach? Who doesn't have a say? You have Rooney, Colbert, Tomlin, the DL, OC and who else?

The fact is that someone has to be responsible. I promise you one person has the final say. It can't work any other way. You'll never get 5 people to agree on a draft board. There is a leader and there is someone who makes the final decision. If not then maybe we've found out why they have failed at drafting since Tombert took over.

So again, to be clear, you are saying that the OC and the DC have no say in the talent that is brought in on their units? Absolutely NONE.

And it's also a coincidence that the small, fast RB/WR hybrid started appearing on the roster at the exact time that Haley arrived?

Yes, I have Rooney, Colbert, Tomlin and the Coordinators ... Oh, can't forget the scouts; but I guess their opinions don't matter either, right? The fact of the matter is that they don't just start scouting these guys after the season. You make it seem like they don't meet and put together a board before the draft. I would imagine that at some time during that process the opinions of the Coordinators on certain players are not only wanted, but actively sought out. I would further imagine that those opinions are taken into account when composing their board. As a matter of fact, I "promise you" that those opinions matter.

Further I didn't say that one person didn't have the final say. What I did say was that Haley's "input is listened to, considered and play(s) at least a part in" the drafting of offensive talent. It's amazing how the words can be right there in front of you and yet you choose to ignore them and try to make it seem as if something other than what has been written is what is being said.

 

[Superman]

I expect that I was the one most vocal on the idea that DL had been consulted on the higher picks. Of course, I never said he was to "blame", but that shouldn't stop anyone, I guess. My premise was only that DL was, most likely consulted and gave an, at least, "Meh, OK" approval of the picks. It seems unpossible to me that it would be any different. As you say, those higher on the pay scale than DL had final say, but a complete lack of consulting would be silly.

Add to that, it seems unlikely to me that DL would have stuck around very long if he hadn't been, at least consulted, regarding the picks and/or picks were made where he explicitly told them was not good players, it makes it more silly.

A man of 50+ years of experience, who knows he could get a job the next day, sticks around for 8 years with an HC who is shoving terrible D picks down his throat without even asking or had specifically said where no good. I think he would have left years ago.

i see all these letters composing words, but it's nothing but jumble. it's as if you've never watched football before. go back to rugby.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

I expect that I was the one most vocal on the idea that DL had been consulted on the higher picks. Of course, I never said he was to "blame", but that shouldn't stop anyone, I guess. My premise was only that DL was, most likely consulted and gave an, at least, "Meh, OK" approval of the picks. It seems unpossible to me that it would be any different. As you say, those higher on the pay scale than DL had final say, but a complete lack of consulting would be silly.

Add to that, it seems unlikely to me that DL would have stuck around very long if he hadn't been, at least consulted, regarding the picks and/or picks were made where he explicitly told them was not good players, it makes it more silly.

A man of 50+ years of experience, who knows he could get a job the next day, sticks around for 8 years with an HC who is shoving terrible D picks down his throat without even asking or had specifically said where no good. I think he would have left years ago.

And if you go back and read what I wrote, I never said Haley was to blame. That was others' interpretation of my statement. What I have been saying is that the Coordinators are consulted and their opinions play a part in the draft process. Vader disagrees.

 

[Vader]

So again, to be clear, you are saying that the OC and the DC have no say in the talent that is brought in on their units? Absolutely NONE.

And it's also a coincidence that the small, fast RB/WR hybrid started appearing on the roster at the exact time that Haley arrived?

Yes, I have Rooney, Colbert, Tomlin and the Coordinators ... Oh, can't forget the scouts; but I guess their opinions don't matter either, right? The fact of the matter is that they don't just start scouting these guys after the season. You make it seem like they don't meet and put together a board before the draft. I would imagine that at some time during that process the opinions of the Coordinators on certain players are not only wanted, but actively sought out. I would further imagine that those opinions are taken into account when composing their board. As a matter of fact, I "promise you" that those opinions matter.

Further I didn't say that one person didn't have the final say. What I did say was that Haley's "input is listened to, considered and play(s) at least a part in" the drafting of offensive talent. It's amazing how the words can be right there in front of you and yet you choose to ignore them and try to make it seem as if something other than what has been written is what is being said.

So let me get this right... Haley (a guy just fired from KC) comes in and has enough pull to change the way Tombert drafts? But when I suggested that the HC, Tomlin came in and changed the way defense was drafted I was told he didn't have that much power early on? Can you explain why in the hell DL would want to change from powerful run stopping LBs that can rush the passer to a lighter softer LB?

Truly amazing indeed. The proof is in the pudding. You are assuming that Haley likes small fast RBs. You have no idea who controlled the draft in KC. You don't even know if he liked McCluster. But somehow in all your knowledge and wisdom you pin all these small RBs on him as an OC? Talk about words being right there for you to read... Do you have any quotes or proof?

I have never said that many people don't have input. That's a typical strawman. I never said that coordinators have NO input. But to make up things just because you believe them to be true doesn't make it true. You have no evidence at all that Haley wants small fast RBs... NONE.

 

[Vader]

And if you go back and read what I wrote, I never said Haley was to blame. That was others' interpretation of my statement. What I have been saying is that the Coordinators are consulted and their opinions play a part in the draft process. Vader disagrees.

I never said that. Again you are making that up. You don't want to say what you mean so you meander around as not to say it. You want to make others on the team at least part responsible for Tomberts failures. Even if you won't come out and say it. If that weren't true then you'd never bring it up.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

I never said that. Again you are making that up. You don't want to say what you mean so you meander around as not to say it. You want to make others on the team at least part responsible for Tomberts failures. Even if you won't come out and say it. If that weren't true then you'd never bring it up.

I believe I said that Tomlin, Colbert and ARII are each partially responsible for draft mistakes. So, how is that meandering around and not stating my opinon straight out? Again, all you have to do is read what I ACTUALLY WROTE instead of trying to make **** up and ascribing it to me. It would really help out a lot. I don't know how many times it has to be repeated for it to sink in or for your comprehension switch to click, but, I also never said that Haley was totally or solely responsible for the Dri pick. What I did say was that his opinion on Dri (and other offensive talent) was certainly a factor in the decision to draft him.

So, to say this point blank (again) Tomlin, Colbert, and to whatever extent he has exerted influence on the draft, ARII are responsible for any, and all draft mistakes made by the Steelers during their mutual time together. Tomlin and Colbert bearing the most blame. Not Tomlin by himself. Not Colbert by himself. Tomlin AND Colbert. Together. That's my opinion.

Again, I believe those decisions are made with input from a variety of sources. You seem to believe that the Steelers War Room is run like your local fantasy football league where only one guy makes the draft decisions with input from no one. If that were the case, then that one guy would have to be Colbert. Otherwise, why even have a GM? But, since I don't agree with your hypothesis, it is my contention that Colbert AND Tomlin, TOGETHER, share the blame for draft mistakes.

Tomlin and Colbert ... Together ... share blame ... draft mistakes. Vader understand?

 

[Stryker]

I'm just going to go out on a limb here and say Bryant would have sucked if we got him in the third. Good thing he fell to us in the fourth. The late rounders are the WR to keep!

 

[Vader]

I believe I said that Tomlin, Colbert and ARII are each partially responsible for draft mistakes. So, how is that meandering around and not stating my opinon straight out? Again, all you have to do is read what I ACTUALLY WROTE instead of trying to make **** up and ascribing it to me. It would really help out a lot. I don't know how many times it has to be repeated for it to sink in or for your comprehension switch to click, but, I also never said that Haley was totally or solely responsible for the Dri pick. What I did say was that his opinion on Dri (and other offensive talent) was certainly a factor in the decision to draft him.

So, to say this point blank (again) Tomlin, Colbert, and to whatever extent he has exerted influence on the draft, ARII are responsible for any, and all draft mistakes made by the Steelers during their mutual time together. Tomlin and Colbert bearing the most blame. Not Tomlin by himself. Not Colbert by himself. Tomlin AND Colbert. Together. That's my opinion.

Again, I believe those decisions are made with input from a variety of sources. You seem to believe that the Steelers War Room is run like your local fantasy football league where only one guy makes the draft decisions with input from no one. If that were the case, then that one guy would have to be Colbert. Otherwise, why even have a GM? But, since I don't agree with your hypothesis, it is my contention that Colbert AND Tomlin, TOGETHER, share the blame for draft mistakes.

Tomlin and Colbert ... Together ... share blame ... draft mistakes. Vader understand?

Then why are you bringing up Haley? You brought it up not me. You and I both know the reason... don't we? SteelBuckeye understand?

 

[SteelBuckeye]

Then why are you bringing up Haley? You brought it up not me. You and I both know the reason... don't we? SteelBuckeye understand?

I apologize ... I thought I was having a discussion with someone who could actually pay attention to the flow of the conversation and understand what was being said. The last few posts and responses between us have made me reassess.

Haley was brought into the discussion because I don't believe the pick is made without his input and evaluation. That's why.

 

[fogdoctor]

Dri Archer will be a 500yd + 4 TD player this year (rushing + receiving).

If it happens then I will say I told you so. If it does not happen then I shall not speak of it again and pretend I never said it.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

For what it's worth to anyone, here's an article by Lance Zierlein about how he believe's the Steelers' draft process works. Lance is form Steelers OL Coach Larry Zierlein's son. The article is about three years old, but it was an interesting read.

http://thesidelineview.com/columns/draft/steelers-project-part-1-steeler-way

 

[Superman]

For what it's worth to anyone, here's an article by Lance Zierlein about how he believe's the Steelers' draft process works. Lance is form Steelers OL Coach Larry Zierlein's son. The article is about three years old, but it was an interesting read.

http://thesidelineview.com/columns/draft/steelers-project-part-1-steeler-way

horseshit. no mention of ****-flinging one-armed monkeys.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

horseshit. no mention of ****-flinging one-armed monkeys.

I know right? Cowher didn't mention them either when he said it was a "collaborative effort" a "consensus" type of thing and not a one person has "final say" type of thing.

http://www.Invalid Link - Check SN Home Page/2014/05/final-say-draft-picks-process-collaboration-steelers-says-bill-cowher/