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The most important positions in football. Draft, free agency.

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Coach

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The most important positions in football.

**This is strictly my interpretation. I have watched NFL football for 30+ years, and played and coached at the HS level** I might tinker with the order later.. I’ll present the thread for a 3-4 defense team. An ideal team has talent at the most important positions, and drafts the top or mid tear positions early if they have an average or below average players starting in tier one or two positions!

A 3rd,4th, or 5th tier position in round one is a luxury / BPA pick when most of the needs are meet in tier one or two.

I will list a few back up for certain positions

I prefer to use free agency and the mid to later rounds of the draft to the tier 3 and 4 positions. This also goes for back ups as well.



Tier 1

Quarter Back - Average QB's seldom win super bowls. You need a top 12 NFLQB to win a super bowl. More likely a top 8 QB
#1 Pass Rusher 3-4 or 4-3 There is a reason why they go early in the draft and get " paid " in free agency
#1 Corner Back - In high demand, with short supply
Left Tackle - Even more important in the pass happy NFL than in the past

Tier 2

#1 Wide Receiver – The rules now favor this position.
Nose Tackle - Without him, the run defense suffers
Running Back – A devalued position, as of late with a short career. But a star RB can make a difference.
#1 Defensive End - Should be good vs the pass and the run
Right Tackle - Needs to be able to pass and run block well
#2 OLB - Needs to be a decent pass rusher

Tier 3

#1 Inside linebacker – Must be 3 down player
Tight End
#2 Cornerback
#2 Defensive End
Free Safety

Tier 4

Center
#2 Wide Receiver
Strong Safety
#3 Corner – You could argue this person starts, and can make or break a game.
#2 Inside linebacker - Two down player, phased in the dime or 3rd and long.

Tier 5


Left Guard
Back up QB
Back Up RB
Right Guard
Kicker
Punter
Full Back
Long snapper
 
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One of my concerns with our current cap situation is the Steelers have a lot of money allocated for Center ( Pouncey ) Inside line backer ( Timmons ) , and Strong Safety. ( Troy ). You do not see many Centers, Inside Linebacker, or pure Strong Safeties drafted in round one...for a reason. My believe is while every positon is important, some are clearly more important than others.
 
Coach said:
One of my concerns with our current cap situation is the Steelers have a lot of money allocated for Center ( Pouncey ) Inside line backer ( Timmons ) , and Strong Safety. ( Troy ). You do not see many Centers, Inside Linebacker, or pure Strong Safeties drafted in round one...for a reason. My believe is while every positon is important, some are clearly more important than others.
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This logic just gnaws at me. We have an elite player at those positions and guess what, you pay them or the leave UFA. Sure we can waste a draft pick to replace someone because you may feel that position doesn't deserve to paid a certain dollar amount. This is why we don't get into the free agency spending craziness. We pay our own when we can and we build through the draft.

We've missed on critical draft picks over the past several years and that alone has left us with some deficiencies on the roster. We need our early round draft picks to excel and stay on the roster.
 
Hines57 said:
This logic just gnaws at me. We have an elite player at those positions and guess what, you pay them or the leave UFA. Sure we can waste a draft pick to replace someone because you may feel that position doesn't deserve to paid a certain dollar amount. This is why we don't get into the free agency spending craziness. We pay our own when we can and we build through the draft.

We've missed on critical draft picks over the past several years and that alone has left us with some deficiencies on the roster. We need our early round draft picks to excel and stay on the roster.
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Understood.

My point is would you rather have an elite Left Tackle or an elite Center?

Would you rather have an elite Pass rusher or an elite Middle linebacker?

I'd take the Left Tackle and Pass rusher any day of the week and twice on Sunday. When a team pays a Center and ILB 10-12 million a year it takes up a lot of cap space for positions that impacts the wins and losses a bit less. That is what I'm trying to say.
 
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when you pay a top 5 center top 5 Left tackle money then there's a problem. Same goes for ILB - OLB.
Of course we want to keep our draft picks but not if they are asking for the moon and then some more. There must be a better negotiation work that valuates positions and market price.
Like we did with Wallace, we want to keep you on the team but we can't pay a boatload of money for you so good bye and good luck
 
Litos said:
when you pay a top 5 center top 5 Left tackle money then there's a problem. Same goes for ILB - OLB.
Of course we want to keep our draft picks but not if they are asking for the moon and then some more. There must be a better negotiation work that valuates positions and market price.
Like we did with Wallace, we want to keep you on the team but we can't pay a boatload of money for you so good bye and good luck
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^^^Thank You. Well put
 
Well as it stands now we have the elite center and a pretty good LT. I'll take that combo. I do remember the days between Jeff Hartings and Pouncey. Remember Sean Mahan? If we were paying an elite LT and had a bum at center then we would all be bitching that we need to upgrade at center. The problem with the LB'er position is yes we're paying Timmons and he's been very consistent but what we need is Jones to play up to his pre-draft potential and play like a #1pick as an edge rusher. If he does that he will get paid. So no matter how you look at it, if we had the elite edge rusher and LT then we'd be complaining that we need an elite center and ILB. We just need Jones to play like they thought he would and Beachum to continue improving at LT. I'm cool with him at LT.
 
Beachum is " good enough to win with " at left tackle but I would not call anything above that. He's rather weak as a run blocker and gave up 6 sacks in 2014, and 7 sacks in 2013. Beachum was also tied for first with the most flags at 7 last season

http://www.Invalid Link - Check SN Home Page/2015/01/2014-steelers-final-sack-breakdown/

http://www.nflpenalties.com/team/pittsburgh-steelers?year=2014&view=players
 
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steelhurt said:
Well as it stands now we have the elite center and a pretty good LT. I'll take that combo. I do remember the days between Jeff Hartings and Pouncey. Remember Sean Mahan? If we were paying an elite LT and had a bum at center then we would all be bitching that we need to upgrade at center. The problem with the LB'er position is yes we're paying Timmons and he's been very consistent but what we need is Jones to play up to his pre-draft potential and play like a #1pick as an edge rusher. If he does that he will get paid. So no matter how you look at it, if we had the elite edge rusher and LT then we'd be complaining that we need an elite center and ILB. We just need Jones to play like they thought he would and Beachum to continue improving at LT. I'm cool with him at LT.
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who said we have to play a bum center just for having an elite LT? I like Beachum, this has nothing to do with him. Actually if he keeps improving you can bet he'll demand A Lot more money when his contract ends and then what? Will we luck out on another 7th round to get a LT? Cause we won't have money to keep Beachum if we are paying a center crazy kind of money.

Undesrtand what we are trying to say? Is not that we want to bring back Mahan, OBVIOUSLY. This is no underappreciating Pouncey nor that I want him traded but the FO must do a better job deciding who to keep in the future if they want the team to have a healthy cap and be contenders
 
Coach said:
Understood.

My point is would you rather have an elite Left Tackle or an elite Center?

Would you rather have an elite Pass rusher or an elite Middle linebacker?

I'd take the Left Tackle and Pass rusher any day of the week and twice on Sunday. When a team pays a Center and ILB 10-12 million a year it takes up a lot of cap space for positions that impacts the wins and losses a bit less. That is what I'm trying to say.
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We drafted TWO tackles high to try and wrangle that LT position away and one is now our starting RT and the other is on the bench. We have the opportunity this year to take a Round 1 LT or LG, however we have other needs right now that probably supersede that need.

And we've drafted pass rushers, and again they've not clicked for us. Worilds walked away from the game after never fully dominating. Woodley got fat in the *** (money & weight) and his body & game went to ****. Jury still out on Jarvis, he's got to be healthy to fully evaluate his game. Our picks are the foundation of this team. We need our draft picks to excel or we're ****** because we don't build this team through UFA.

I don't have a problem paying Timmons & Pouncey because they are All Pro players. They both are consistent. The blowback against Timmons and Pouncey on this board because they make a certain dollar amount at their position is utter bullshit. If the FO connects on draft picks at the need positions, then we don't have those needs. We need to draft better and this team won't have the holes we have.
 
Coach said:
Beachum is " good enough to win with " at left tackle but I would not call anything above that. He's rather weak as a run blocker and gave up 6 sacks in 2014, and 7 sacks in 2013. Beachum was also tied for first with the most flags at 7 last season

http://www.Invalid Link - Check SN Home Page/2015/01/2014-steelers-final-sack-breakdown/

http://www.nflpenalties.com/team/pittsburgh-steelers?year=2014&view=players
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That's an interesting article. Did you notice what it had to say about Pouncey and the fact that he only gave up a half a sack on the year? That's coming a year after suffering a major knee injury and pretty darned impressive.
 
The average yearly salary for the top five highest paid Centers in the NFL is $8,407,665. Pouncey's average yearly salary is $8,827,325. The Steelers have said repeatedly that they consider him one of the best Centers in the game, and they backed that up by paying him as such. Pouncey's average salary is the second highest in the league behind only Rodney Hudson's $8.9M. Interestingly enough, both Hudson and Pouncey are signed through 2020, while the next three highest paid Centers will be seeking new contracts (at presumably higher salaries) in 2017, 2018 and 2019. Also interesting is that of the top five highest paid Centers, Pouncey and Hudson have the lowest percent of their contract guaranteed.

http://overthecap.com/position/center/
 
Litos said:
who said we have to play a bum center just for having an elite LT? I like Beachum, this has nothing to do with him. Actually if he keeps improving you can bet he'll demand A Lot more money when his contract ends and then what? Will we luck out on another 7th round to get a LT? Cause we won't have money to keep Beachum if we are paying a center crazy kind of money.

Undesrtand what we are trying to say? Is not that we want to bring back Mahan, OBVIOUSLY. This is no underappreciating Pouncey nor that I want him traded but the FO must do a better job deciding who to keep in the future if they want the team to have a healthy cap and be contenders
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You cannot pay everyone. You have to pick who you want to keep. I'm ok with what they've done with Pouncey and Timmons. Pouncey anchors the OL and is a top center in the league. Timmons as well on defense is the anchor. So with your logic you pay a Joe Thomas type LT which is great but then you have maybe not a bum at center but a decent center. The game you and the Coach are playing is tit for tat. Hell, pick your poison. Gee I'll pay the LT and go with pretty good center. Its 6 of 1 and 1/2 dozen of the other. Get it! I'm cool with All pro center and pretty good LT. You would rather have the all pro LT and pretty good center. They are both important positions and don't think it matters if one is all pro and the other is a pretty good player. Beachum will get paid but he is not getting Ryan Claddy or Joe Thomas money. The Steelers will most likely extend him this summer and it won't be for elite money but I think you will continue to see him improve. This would be a good bargain move for the team that locks down LT for the next 5 years with a good LT that's getting better and you still have your all pro center.
 
steelhurt said:
You cannot pay everyone. You have to pick who you want to keep. I'm ok with what they've done with Pouncey and Timmons. Pouncey anchors the OL and is a top center in the league. Timmons as well on defense is the anchor. So with your logic you pay a Joe Thomas type LT which is great but then you have maybe not a bum at center but a decent center. The game you and the Coach are playing is tit for tat. Hell, pick your poison. Gee I'll pay the LT and go with pretty good center. Its 6 of 1 and 1/2 dozen of the other. Get it! I'm cool with All pro center and pretty good LT. You would rather have the all pro LT and pretty good center. They are both important positions and don't think it matters if one is all pro and the other is a pretty good player. Beachum will get paid but he is not getting Ryan Claddy or Joe Thomas money. The Steelers will most likely extend him this summer and it won't be for elite money but I think you will continue to see him improve. This would be a good bargain move for the team that locks down LT for the next 5 years with a good LT that's getting better and you still have your all pro center.
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The Steelers can win game without Pouncey. When he went out for the year, the back up did his job. However if Beachum were to go down for the year, we are in serious trouble. An example of why Centers aren't as important as Left Tackles.

The Steelers gave Pouncey a 5 year 44 million dollar deal. While Pouncey is a good player, he's not Dirt Dawson or Mike Webster. He's has had some injury issues, and minor off the field / twitter incidents. Would I have rather spent 44 million on a stud pass rusher, or corner? Yes
 
I didn't see TEs in your writeup. This year they appear to be going tier 2, when they usually go in tier 3.

As far as centers vs LT debate goes, I may be in the minority here, but I have always felt center is the single most important position on the offensive line. I don't care how their salaries compare, I care that this is a skilled position player who is the only offensive player that will touch the ball each and every play. Their job is to read the defensive line, call out blocking assignments, and execute the snap count. The exchange between center and QB becomes automatic when you have a reliable center. This is why when starting centers go down, it usually effects 2-4 snaps in an adverse way on their first call to action. Partially because they lack the experience playing at NFL speed, and partially because they lack the comfortable second nature of the exchange to get the ball to the QB.

The Steelers have always valued the center highest among offensive lineman. He has to be sharp and physical, and with the advent of Dirt being an exceptional athlete, we were able to revolutionize the center position into an athletic position where they can pull and get into space.

It is no small mistake that our organization prides stability at center just about as much as it prides it's stability at the head coaching position. Our only hiccup was Mahan. To go Mansfield (12yrs 2 SBs) to Weber (13yrs 2 SBs HOF) to Dawson (12yrs 1SB HOF Candidate) to Hartings (7yrs All pro, SB) to Mahan (1yr) to Hartwig (2yrs Superbowl win) to Pouncey (All Pro x4) is not luck, and it's not being fortunate. It's an organization that sees that having a strong center is the key to consistency in running an offense.

This is the type of long vision you get when you have single family ownership running this team since 1933.
 
Coach said:
The Steelers can win game without Pouncey. When he went out for the year, the back up did his job. However if Beachum were to go down for the year, we are in serious trouble. An example of why Centers aren't as important as Left Tackles.

The Steelers gave Pouncey a 5 year 44 million dollar deal. While Pouncey is a good player, he's not Dirt Dawson or Mike Webster. He's has had some injury issues, and minor off the field / twitter incidents. Would I have rather spent 44 million on a stud pass rusher, or corner? Yes
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When he went out for the year, the team was not able to execute the blocking assignments that they wanted. His back-ups executed a watered down version of the blocking assignments that if you remember correctly, Pouncey had to teach them because the OL coach was terrible. So, they did well in part because of Pouncey's tutelage.

And while he may not be Dawson or Webster, he has made the Pro Bowl every year that he has played except for the year when DeCastro blew his knee out for him (not an injury that you can say makes him injury prone). As far as twitter or off field incidents, he hasn't been suspended for anything, so that's a non-issue. The man is one of the top Centers in the NFL during his ERA and he is being paid as such. Webster and Dawson were from another era and if they had hit their prime during this era, would be paid as well or better than Pouncey .... and people would still question that.
 
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Coach said:
The Steelers can win game without Pouncey. When he went out for the year, the back up did his job. However if Beachum were to go down for the year, we are in serious trouble. An example of why Centers aren't as important as Left Tackles.

The Steelers gave Pouncey a 5 year 44 million dollar deal. While Pouncey is a good player, he's not Dirt Dawson or Mike Webster. He's has had some injury issues, and minor off the field / twitter incidents. Would I have rather spent 44 million on a stud pass rusher, or corner? Yes
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That's where we disagree Coach. I happen to think Pouncey is among the best centers in the league.I have no problem with his contract. Aside from the season ending injury where De Castro wiped him out the man has been steady and is a perennial pro bowl center. The reason we don't have money to buy an edge rusher or at least a big reason is the 8 million in dead money from a former edge rusher. Maybe you remember him, Woodley.Yeah they had their high priced edge rusher and that worked out well.
We've bitched around here for years about the OL and when we start to pay these guys, you ***** about it. Once Woodley's money is off the books and Troy's as well we will have money next off season. The Steelers are hoping that Jones comes through and Moats can hold it down and a high draft pick. If we falter this year at OLB then don't be surprised next off season if they spend on a F/A.

As far as Beachum going down you can make that argument for just about anyone on the team. We'd be pretty much screwed. We lack quality depth at almost every position but if Beachum or Gilbert go down then you have Adams as bad as that may seem but it is what it is at the present until we can get some quality depth.. Also, we got damn lucky with Valasquez when Pouncey went down. He had ben the Titans starting center until they decided to get younger. He wasn't some scrub by any means but a very good center we were extremely fortunate to get.
 
The most important position is the guy behind the QB while in the victory formation. Like where Troy used to be.
 
The best LT in football has played the last 8-10 seasons in Cleveland.
 
Timmons is not a elite ilb not close he's justbpaid like one
 
Xc944 said:
Timmons is not a elite ilb not close he's justbpaid like one
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With Willis gone and his side also saying goodbye...who do you have above him?
 
stillwright said:
With Willis gone and his side also saying goodbye...who do you have above him?
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Don't bother, I've already shown stats that show Timmons numbers to be eerily similar to Willis despite Willis having the better DL in front of him and the better ILB next to him... he'll never admit it.

As for the LT argument, Joe Thomas allowed 4 sacks in 2014, Joe Staley 4.5, Russell Okung 3.5. These are your Elite tackles, all have 5+ years starting in the NFL at LT. Beachum has allowed 7 and 8 in his only two seasons starting at LT, with a QB that has a tendency to hold the ball longer than normal. Joe Staley's first two years at LT looked very similar. Beachum may not have the elite measurable's, but he's now slouch either. He's WAY better than "good enough to win with". And for not being very strong in the run game, they sure did run to the left A LOT.
 
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