My guess is we are going to hear more and more stuff like this

[POP]

]LOL.. LeBeau is younger than 80.

Yea,he's 78, which is the exact same point whether he is 80 or not, he is too old to be an NFL DC. Same point whether he is 80 or 78. Same point. Get it?

Also do you think DL didn't want to find legit edge rusher and upgrade at the CB?

Oh, he wanted to find them, but his obsession for only playing vets who came up under his tutelage sure makes that job harder. If you haven't put YEARS in, under his wings, and learned to worship him, Dick didn't want to play you. And once you have earned your stripes, and regularly praise Dick as a genius, then it's almost impossible to lose your starting job.

Is Butler going to cut Jones?

He doesn't have the power to. And a high 1st round pick isn't gonna get cut year 3, as it would be admitting the team screwed up the draft, and the Rooneys don't like doing that.

Oh, is Butler in charge of the draft and FA now?

He has more influence now as the DC than he did as a simply LB coach.

Wow this guy has never been a DC before but he obviously has a ton of power.

Straw man argument time, once again.

Oh and this just in- it's a lot easier to say the right things than do them. I know the defense better be a lot better if not then I expect people to say he's too set in his ways and teams have figured him out already.

Whatever floats your boat. Dick was out-of-touch and too old to serve as DC. How many more years of poor D play would be sufficient for you to notice this? 3 is enough for me, not even counting that embarrassing fiasco in the Denver play off loss, loosing to a QB who can't even make a single NFL teams 3rd string as QB. How do you lose to a guy who can't make 3rd string any where? By calling a game as pathetic as DL did - it's the only way to allow for it.

 

[Vader]

Yea,he's 78, which is the exact same point whether he is 80 or not, he is too old to be an NFL DC. Same point whether he is 80 or 78. Same point. Get it?

Also do you think DL didn't want to find legit edge rusher and upgrade at the CB?

Oh, he wanted to find them, but his obsession for only playing vets who came up under his tutelage sure makes that job harder. If you haven't put YEARS in, under his wings, and learned to worship him, Dick didn't want to play you. And once you have earned your stripes, and regularly praise Dick as a genius, then it's almost impossible to lose your starting job.



He doesn't have the power to. And a high 1st round pick isn't gonna get cut year 3, as it would be admitting the team screwed up the draft, and the Rooneys don't like doing that.




He has more influence now as the DC than he did as a simply LB coach.



Straw man argument time, once again.



Whatever floats your boat. Dick was out-of-touch and too old to serve as DC. How many more years of poor D play would be sufficient for you to notice this? 3 is enough for me, not even counting that embarrassing fiasco in the Denver play off loss, loosing to a QB who can't even make a single NFL teams 3rd string as QB. How do you lose to a guy who can't make 3rd string any where? By calling a game as pathetic as DL did - it's the only way to allow for it.

All that is your opinion NOT fact. Again you use a myth (that he never played younger players) to say something totally false. Name the player that didn't play that should have played. I've written this in another thread. Almost ALL the starters started within their first 2 years. It's a damn myth that people like you constantly tell. Also name me another great DC that has been a DC for as long as DL that doesn't have a few bad losses. Give me your great DC and I'll show you some bad losses. How in the hell did Seattle lose to the rams this year? Do you even know who the QB was for the Rams? Just give me some names....

Also Butler not lose to any bad QBs......

 

[madinsomniac]

So lets see... Worilds spends basically his whole first contract doing nothing, has a good second half of a season right before his UFA, then with teams gameplanning for him has a woefully average year and blames it on a DC?... do not resign this guy for more than average money... because he is average.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

So lets see... Worilds spends basically his whole first contract doing nothing, has a good second half of a season right before his UFA, then with teams gameplanning for him has a woefully average year and blames it on a DC?... do not resign this guy for more than average money... because he is average.

Agree, he's a JAG and deserves JAG money. I think there's a good chance Tombert will get stupid, think they can't live without him, and overpay with top ten money again "because he knows our defense".
I'd make him a fair offer but if another team wants to pay more then the prudent move is to let him walk.

 

[Coryea]

Hahaha, the "DL didn't play young guys crap" again.
2005 playoffs, rookie Bryant Mcfadden single coverage with Wayne, no safety help on a few occassions, including a play that he knocked away a TD from him.
2007 Timmons was behind foote and farrior, played a ton on passing downs his 2nd season, started a few games, and was a starter by year 3.
Woodley played in 13 games as a rookie, had 4 sacks and 2 more sacks in the playoff game vs Jax. Starter in year 2
Hood was behind Smith and Keisel,
Heyward was behind Hood a1st round pick and Keisel

 

[Vader]

Hahaha, the "DL didn't play young guys crap" again.
2005 playoffs, rookie Bryant Mcfadden single coverage with Wayne, no safety help on a few occassions, including a play that he knocked away a TD from him.
2007 Timmons was behind foote and farrior, played a ton on passing downs his 2nd season, started a few games, and was a starter by year 3.
Woodley played in 13 games as a rookie, had 4 sacks and 2 more sacks in the playoff game vs Jax. Starter in year 2
Hood was behind Smith and Keisel,
Heyward was behind Hood a1st round pick and Keisel

People will believe anything if you repeat it often enough. Hood started his rookie year and was playing part time when Smith got hurt. If they had played Heyward over Hood people would ***** that Hood wasn't getting enough playing time and that DL never plays the young guys. Does anybody believe that he should have sat Keisel and played Hood and Heyward? So you're going to sit your best DL just to play young guys? Maybe in the 2008 SB run he should have sat that old OLB Harrison and played a young guy? DL plays young guys all the time. Shazier and Jones have both started as rookies. It just makes no sense.

 

[Stryker]

So DL is too old now, but 4 years ago, when he's 74, he is fine I suppose, since the D ranked #1?

I feel the argument is splitting grey hairs here...

 

[stillwright]

Isn't Dick the LBer coach in Arizona now?

 

[BLITZ]

Isn't Dick the LBer coach in Arizona now?

um he is way to old for that position. wonder if he was allowed on a plane to get out to az or if he was to old to fly

 

[SteelerFan448]

People will believe anything if you repeat it often enough. Hood started his rookie year and was playing part time when Smith got hurt. If they had played Heyward over Hood people would ***** that Hood wasn't getting enough playing time and that DL never plays the young guys. Does anybody believe that he should have sat Keisel and played Hood and Heyward? So you're going to sit your best DL just to play young guys? Maybe in the 2008 SB run he should have sat that old OLB Harrison and played a young guy? DL plays young guys all the time. Shazier and Jones have both started as rookies. It just makes no sense.

Exactly. People ignore the fact that these young defenders weren't starting because they had some damn good players ahead of them.

 

[SteelerAl]

I wouldn't say Lebeau was "losing it" or too old, but I do think it was time for a change and some new ideas.

I think we can be incrementally more creative on defense --- I mean, damn, when was the last time the Fire X blitz (two ILBs crossing and blitzing the center gaps) actually worked? We all complain when the offensive coordinator keeps doing the same thing with no success, but should Dick get a pass for repeatedly calling that blitz that opponents seem to block without any difficulty nearly 100% of the time? Does Flacco really have to work his butt off to prepare to play us? No doubt we have a talent deficit on defense right now, but I have to think the reason EVERY QB looks so comfortable attacking our defense is at least in part attributable to Lebeau's schemes being pretty stale.

And I think the defense can get incrementally less complicated as well. When really smart veterans (Ryan Clark, James Farrior etc.) take at least half a season to get comfortable, that is a sign the playbook might be a little too big.

 

[Wingman]

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Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
Funny how the young always seems to blame the old because of .... age. Just because. Has to make sense if I keep repeating it right?
I'm with ya Cope. Here's a great article on LeBeau from Behind the Steel Curtain website:

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com...d-out-resigned

Basically it's my response to people like POP who can't quit bashing LeBeau.

I felt the need to quote both of you for correctness.

Age is often misconstrued by those who try to equate knowledge and experience with ignorance.

 

[Coryea]

I wouldn't say Lebeau was "losing it" or too old, but I do think it was time for a change and some new ideas.

And I think the defense can get incrementally less complicated as well. When really smart veterans (Ryan Clark, James Farrior etc.) take at least half a season to get comfortable, that is a sign the playbook might be a little too big.

Not that I don't think we need new ideas, I'm fine with that, but in DL's first season back in 04, Farrior had his best season and it was his first season under Lebeau, so it wasn't tough for him to pick up

 

[POP]

I wouldn't say Lebeau was "losing it" or too old, but I do think it was time for a change and some new ideas.

I think we can be incrementally more creative on defense --- I mean, damn, when was the last time the Fire X blitz (two ILBs crossing and blitzing the center gaps) actually worked? We all complain when the offensive coordinator keeps doing the same thing with no success, but should Dick get a pass for repeatedly calling that blitz that opponents seem to block without any difficulty nearly 100% of the time? Does Flacco really have to work his butt off to prepare to play us? No doubt we have a talent deficit on defense right now, but I have to think the reason EVERY QB looks so comfortable attacking our defense is at least in part attributable to Lebeau's schemes being pretty stale.

And I think the defense can get incrementally less complicated as well. When really smart veterans (Ryan Clark, James Farrior etc.) take at least half a season to get comfortable, that is a sign the playbook might be a little too big.

Bingo, bongo, right on the banjo. All of it.

 

[POP]

Not that I don't think we need new ideas, I'm fine with that, but in DL's first season back in 04, Farrior had his best season and it was his first season under Lebeau, so it wasn't tough for him to pick up

He had his best season because he was in his prime with studs all around him: Troy in his prime, other guys in their prime such as Porter, Townsend, Foote, Aaron Smith, Hampton, Ike, Keisel, Harrison, Willie Williams, etc.

 

[POP]

Breaking news: Rooney said if DL came back, it would have NOT been as DC, no matter what.

http://www.observer-reporter.com/article/20150121/SPORTS0403/150129856#.VMPyXkfF9qI

So, the Rooneys agree with ME. So much for all you'all trying to bash me because I speak the truth. They were gonna reduce Dick's role, in other words, give him a cross word puzzle and tell him he can take a nap.

I was right and the Rooneys saw it too. Note Rooney said the game was changing, which, reading between the lines, is indicating that Dick wasn't keeping up. I give Art 2 to have the vision and courage to know a change was long overdue. Dick, have been accustomed to hearing what a genius he was, didn't like how that felt on the grande old ego.

“I am not sure I see anything dramatic other than to acknowledge that the game is changing,” Rooney said. “Every year, there are new wrinkles that defensive coordinators have to adjust to. Keeping up with offenses these days is a real challenge. I don’t expect any dramatic changes to kind of the foundation or our defense.”

But he would like to see improvement. The Steelers’ defense ranked 18th in the NFL in total yards and points allowed this season and were 26th in sacks with only 33.

“We need to be able to pressure the quarterback more consistently,” Rooney said. “Some of the games that we were successful in this season, we were able to do that. I think that’s the key to stopping these high-powered offenses. You have to be able to pressure the quarterback. That’s an area we have to get better. We need to create some more turnovers, those kind of things. Those are the areas I think we have to focus on.”

Art 2 stopped drinking the Dick Kool Aid and realized it was overdue time for change. Kudos to Art 2.

 

[Stryker]

Breaking news: Rooney said if DL came back, it would have NOT been as DC, no matter what.

http://www.observer-reporter.com/article/20150121/SPORTS0403/150129856#.VMPyXkfF9qI

So, the Rooneys agree with ME. So much for all you'all trying to bash me because I speak the truth. They were gonna reduce Dick's role, in other words, give him a cross word puzzle and tell him he can take a nap.

I was right and the Rooneys saw it too. Note Rooney said the game was changing, which, reading between the lines, is indicating that Dick wasn't keeping up. I give Art 2 to have the vision and courage to know a change was long overdue. Dick, have been accustomed to hearing what a genius he was, didn't like how that felt on the grande old ego. .

Just because an outcome happened, doesn't make you right. There are many variables involved in running a billion dollar enterprise that don't involve your ego.

Perhaps the Steelers were worried that Butler would leave since his contract was up this season and they needed to make a decision? Especially since Butler did not opt to become a DC in the past with other teams, or even to interview for some positions. Butler was a hot prospect to be a DC, and he was going to be a DC in this league. The Steelers probably wanted to make sure that Butler was a DC with them and not someone else.

I personally felt his ability to serve more years here from this point forward, than DL was apparent, and since Butler was a free agent, the Steelers had to make a move. A difficult business decision, but I feel in the long run it will prove to be the right one.

 

[POP]

Just because an outcome happened, doesn't make you right. There are many variables involved in running a billion dollar enterprise that don't involve your ego.

Perhaps the Steelers were worried that Butler would leave since his contract was up this season and they needed to make a decision? Especially since Butler did not opt to become a DC in the past with other teams, or even to interview for some positions. Butler was a hot prospect to be a DC, and he was going to be a DC in this league. The Steelers probably wanted to make sure that Butler was a DC with them and not someone else.

I personally felt his ability to serve more years here from this point forward, than DL was apparent, and since Butler was a free agent, the Steelers had to make a move. A difficult business decision, but I feel in the long run it will prove to be the right one.

That all makes logical sense and is plausible, and not losing Butler could have easily been a _part_ of the decision. However, that being said, Art did mention a few things that also seem to indicate he felt they needed an UPGRADE to what was happening on D (more in tune with today's game, more QB pressure) and often times, if you don't make changes (staying with a guy pushing 80) you can't expect different results. Art made the right call, regardless.

 

[CoolieMan]

late to the topic, but why does the opinion of this writer make it a fact that Worilds was used incorrectly???

 

[POP]

late to the topic, but why does the opinion of this writer make it a fact that Worilds was used incorrectly???

I am not positive, but the way it was written _seemed_ to imply that it was Butler's input to him. It may not have been, but that's what I came away with. I got the impression Butler expressed we need an upgrade in an edge rusher (which Rooney himself mentioned) and an upgrade at CB, which most of us have been asserting for years now. For whatever reason, Tomlin/Dick/Colbert seemed dead set to not use much priority on CBs and we are hurting because of it. To not address the position until the 5th round (and they FAILED by waiting so long) seemed foolish.

 

[SteelerFan448]

late to the topic, but why does the opinion of this writer make it a fact that Worilds was used incorrectly???

Not too much. I'd be more concerned with how they used him if he was better at rushing the quarterback. He seems pretty average across the board, but maybe with more opportunities and an improved defensive line in front of him, Worilds will be more productive. He is only 26 and odds are they will try hard to keep him.

 

[CoolieMan]

I am not positive, but the way it was written _seemed_ to imply that it was Butler's input to him. It may not have been, but that's what I came away with. I got the impression Butler expressed we need an upgrade in an edge rusher (which Rooney himself mentioned) and an upgrade at CB, which most of us have been asserting for years now. For whatever reason, Tomlin/Dick/Colbert seemed dead set to not use much priority on CBs and we are hurting because of it. To not address the position until the 5th round (and they FAILED by waiting so long) seemed foolish.

seems to me it was the writers opinion which is not worth anymore than yours or anyone else on this site....