Jason Worilds is Clark Haggans 2.0. He is serviceable, but not the answer.
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2014
- Messages
- 1,500
- Reaction score
- 689
- Points
- 113
I dont know why it has to be mutually exclusive.
I certainly doubt that Worild is some hidden diamond. Or that he would have 20 sacks if he were used properly.
I also do not think it is outrageous to believe that an 80 y.o. man may be somewhat inflexible or not as willing to change his schemes. Especially when that man has enjoyed such success in the past.
I think Worilds looks slightly better next year (w/o worrying about dropping back in coverage). But not sure if he will be worth the going rate.
I certainly doubt that Worild is some hidden diamond. Or that he would have 20 sacks if he were used properly.
I also do not think it is outrageous to believe that an 80 y.o. man may be somewhat inflexible or not as willing to change his schemes. Especially when that man has enjoyed such success in the past.
I think Worilds looks slightly better next year (w/o worrying about dropping back in coverage). But not sure if he will be worth the going rate.
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2014
- Messages
- 7,497
- Reaction score
- 5,032
- Points
- 113
I've listened to many commentators and even opposing OC talk about how DL is constantly changing his defense. He's being criticized in this very thread because he dropped Worilds into coverage which was a change from last year. The guy can't win. Worilds was bad this year against the pass and the run. DL can't do much when you can stone Worilds with a TE or RB. Might as well have him play coverage.
BTW Butler will be 60 next year.. I hear they aren't very flexible either...
BTW Butler will be 60 next year.. I hear they aren't very flexible either...
So when Woodley was putting up double digit sack numbers, was that because our old man DC changed his scheme? Or because Woodley could actually win a one on one battle?
So when Haggans and Worilds can't get sacks, our old man DC isn't using them right and he refuses to change?
So when Haggans and Worilds can't get sacks, our old man DC isn't using them right and he refuses to change?
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2014
- Messages
- 2,086
- Reaction score
- 1,349
- Points
- 113
Thing is Ya they moved worilds around for *** sakes he's a linebacker. That said someone's gotta play that postion in this defense I say he gets a multi year at around 7 or 7.5 until a new blitzer emerges or they start using ironhead2 as primary pass rusher we have no choice.
P
POP
Guest
Illogical. If DL has been holding this team back for 3 years and Butler improves it, how is it bc DL stunk that made Butler good? I am already reading the comments that, reading between the lines, are saying that DL refused to adapt to what players he had, and that he insisted on just doing his same old system, even though it wasn't the best mode for the D's success. Sorry, I am not in favor of such poppycock.
P
POP
Guest
We have the great Jarvis Jones for the primary pass rusher. In two years, he's proven..............oh, wait. That's right.
P
POP
Guest
You do realize that it's not that simple? First of all, when Woodley was putting up double digit sacks, DL was 5 years younger. He just was in his 70's, now he's pushing 80. Woodley also had either Porter or Harrison on the other side - two pro bowl caliber LBs. Fact is, when you get old the most common mindset is to be "stuck in your ways." It is clear that DL was just that, and Butler is going to bring our D up to speed to the modern age.
P
POP
Guest
Huge difference between 60 and 80. Yea, DL may constantly change his D, but these days he was changing it to stuff everyone already knew of. The old dog had no new tricks. He'd just change it up to some scheme that fooled no one. Ever watch certain QBs play vs. that D the last 3 years? QBs generally looked calm and unconfused facing it. That Buc QB drove right down their throats to win that game final drive. It was like taking candy from a baby.
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2014
- Messages
- 11,072
- Reaction score
- 13,225
- Points
- 113
First off POP, you are writing some pretty big checks for Butler to cash. You've pretty much got his defense moving up 6 to 8 spots minimum simply because Lebeau refused to use extraordinary players as they were supposed to be used due apparently to something close to senility.
I'm all for the defense becoming top 5 again. You bet. I personally don't see it next year, but since you seem to feel that Butler has just been chomping at the bit to use our league-envied talent to unleash carnage on unsuspecting offenses with personnel-customized defensive packages I guess we'll see a 45 to -6 blowout in the first preseason game next year.
The question is, how many quarterbacks will Worilds cripple next year? Should the league consider upping insurance policies for QBs, Punters and Placekickers? Should I start marketing my Black and Gold "The Butler Did It!" T-Shirts now? Are you really Mrs. Butler?
Burning Questions...
I'm all for the defense becoming top 5 again. You bet. I personally don't see it next year, but since you seem to feel that Butler has just been chomping at the bit to use our league-envied talent to unleash carnage on unsuspecting offenses with personnel-customized defensive packages I guess we'll see a 45 to -6 blowout in the first preseason game next year.
The question is, how many quarterbacks will Worilds cripple next year? Should the league consider upping insurance policies for QBs, Punters and Placekickers? Should I start marketing my Black and Gold "The Butler Did It!" T-Shirts now? Are you really Mrs. Butler?
Burning Questions...
Lebeau never changed anyt of the sets both Flacco @ Dalton guys that for several years have played vs his schemes knew where the blitz was coming from and how easy if we were bringing the house to just throw a short screen to AJ or Torrey b/c of the Cushion.
Put Worlids right at the edge and tell him to get as low as he can get while bull rushing, the same way Deebo gets low as Deebo is 6"0 and Worlids is 6"2 still the OT in our division hold about 4-5 inch height advantages, why would you loop Worlids from the MLB spot, the only LB I can see we had that could be effective on that type of blitz is Shazier as he runs a 4.38 while Worlids is about a 4.55-4.6, he was often just a half a sec late.
Let's see if Butler brings back the 3-3-5 or uses a 4-2-5
With our needs I think we have to wait till round 3 for a rusher we barley have cash to sign as of now Allen, Tate, McCain, Blake, Gay is in his final year.
Need to extend Ben @ Heyward, release Thomas @ Troy and if Foster is a Fa let him go and try to bring the Vandy kid back from the jets, a quicker LG is needed for this spread O perhaps Munchack might try Adams at LG he has the feat wieght @ agility 6"7 315 vs Foster 6"4 340 heavy footed, I think I want the quicker OL or see if Cody Wallace can play LG.
With Shazier I woould in both the 3-3-5 or 4-2-5 play him mid deep as LB/S match up vs a fast TE and let Timmons play the run or Blitz.
3-3-5
DE Heyward
DT Mcullers
DE Tuitt
OLB Worlids
MLB Timmons
OLB Jones
DB Shazier
CB Allen
CB Gay
CB McCain/rookie
FS Mitchell
Ss Thomas/Rookie
4-2-5
LE Tuitt
NG Heyward
DT Mclendon
RE Worlids
LB Timmons
LB Shazier
CB Allen
CB Gay
CB McCain
FS Mitchell
SS Thomas
If Harrison comes 1 lasst time it will really help Jones
Put Worlids right at the edge and tell him to get as low as he can get while bull rushing, the same way Deebo gets low as Deebo is 6"0 and Worlids is 6"2 still the OT in our division hold about 4-5 inch height advantages, why would you loop Worlids from the MLB spot, the only LB I can see we had that could be effective on that type of blitz is Shazier as he runs a 4.38 while Worlids is about a 4.55-4.6, he was often just a half a sec late.
Let's see if Butler brings back the 3-3-5 or uses a 4-2-5
With our needs I think we have to wait till round 3 for a rusher we barley have cash to sign as of now Allen, Tate, McCain, Blake, Gay is in his final year.
Need to extend Ben @ Heyward, release Thomas @ Troy and if Foster is a Fa let him go and try to bring the Vandy kid back from the jets, a quicker LG is needed for this spread O perhaps Munchack might try Adams at LG he has the feat wieght @ agility 6"7 315 vs Foster 6"4 340 heavy footed, I think I want the quicker OL or see if Cody Wallace can play LG.
With Shazier I woould in both the 3-3-5 or 4-2-5 play him mid deep as LB/S match up vs a fast TE and let Timmons play the run or Blitz.
3-3-5
DE Heyward
DT Mcullers
DE Tuitt
OLB Worlids
MLB Timmons
OLB Jones
DB Shazier
CB Allen
CB Gay
CB McCain/rookie
FS Mitchell
Ss Thomas/Rookie
4-2-5
LE Tuitt
NG Heyward
DT Mclendon
RE Worlids
LB Timmons
LB Shazier
CB Allen
CB Gay
CB McCain
FS Mitchell
SS Thomas
If Harrison comes 1 lasst time it will really help Jones
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2014
- Messages
- 15,200
- Reaction score
- 24,510
- Points
- 113
Butler has been studying under dick for 11 years. I am sure I do not need to go into detail about how that would help butler. I for one do not think dl has held this team back.. drafting has, head coaching decisions has, but Dick has done a pretty decent job coaching a team that basically has no play makers. Once again I hope Butler has a awesome year and our defense is back in the top five, but if that does happen, I think Dick has a lot to do with it. Most of what is said about dick from people that played with him and against him is he is still a miracle worker. how long was he out of work?
Yeah Woodley did have Harrison, Porter and Woodley never played together, so what you're saying is without Harrison, teams can load up to stop Worilds? I can't recall Worilds getting double teamed.
So 5 years is a big difference, what about the 4 years prior to Woodley, when lebeau was even younger and Haggans wasn't putting up sacks?
So 5 years is a big difference, what about the 4 years prior to Woodley, when lebeau was even younger and Haggans wasn't putting up sacks?
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2014
- Messages
- 7,492
- Reaction score
- 10,460
- Points
- 113
The problem is lack of talent on this defense for both Lebeau and Butler. The defensive backfield is the worst in decades, There are zero OLB pass rushers, and the DL is promising at best. Come on be serious here, who could win with that combination. Instead of making Lebeau the scapegoat why not look at why a proud tradition of Steeler defense has turned out to be a joke. Go to the source, Tomlin, Colbert and scouts.
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2014
- Messages
- 3,145
- Reaction score
- 3,969
- Points
- 113
I can't fault them TOO much for this one. Cortez Allen losing his mojo and having a horrible year is hard to predict. People forget how well he was playing last year when he was finally healthy. He **** down AJ Green, and him and Ike had all but swapped positions with who gets the other teams toughest WR. Cortez playing like he did last year would have made a HUGE improvement on the D. That moves everyone down a peg, Gay is the #2 guy, McCain goes to his natural spot in the slot, and Blake comes in on the Dime. With Cortez getting benched (and we are now hearing he was more hurt than he lead on, or whatever mental issues he was having), then Ike getting hurt, it left us VERY thin. We didn't go into the year quite as bad as it looked.
The OLB is another issue, Jones started to look solid before the injury, but really was the only "bright" spot at the beginning of the year. Worilds was doing his super slow start thing, Moats was showing he was exactly what he is, a back up, and there wasn't much else. I would not have cut Woodley before the season, that move (I don't care about the cap at this point with this move, to me it's wash. You either have dead money and no player, or a player with slightly more cap hit) left us SUPER thin at OLB.
ILB we are set, DL is coming together with Heyward and Tuitt, still could use an upgrade at NT (even if McClendon isn't as bad as people think, he is injured an awful lot).
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2014
- Messages
- 7,497
- Reaction score
- 5,032
- Points
- 113
You jumped 10 years (70 to 80) in 5 years. DL went from almost 70 to almost 80 in 5 years? Why not just use his real age? Every defense looks bad when they can't rush the QB. If you think Butler can make Worilds rush any better then I don't know what to tell you. People want to see what they want to see. If they give Butler the same talent he'll have similar results. Bank on it.
come to think of it, wasn't Butler the LB's coach, isn't Worilds a LB?
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2014
- Messages
- 7,497
- Reaction score
- 5,032
- Points
- 113
Why yes.. yes he was.
P
POP
Guest
That's because it is half way in between and 5 years ago he was closer to 70 than 80, 5 years later he is 78, which is closer to 80 than 70. What is so hard to grasp about that? And, this just in: When you don't rush the OLB, the OLB won't be able to apply pressure. How is Worilds supposed to get pressure standing 7 yards behind the LOS? Butler has seen things he knows he can do better, and will do so. DL was at an age where he was stuck in his ways and refused to stay up with modern day NFL. He was in love with his system even though the game had passed it by. He kept dong the same thing he had done the last 20 years. This just in: The game has changed since then.
P
POP
Guest
That is the same lame argument that has already been destroyed. Butler was at the mercy of what DL wanted to run. What, do you think Butler can change the play and have his LBs do stuff different than what DL's play calling has them doing? What color is the sky in your planet? So, you are at a trade show, and your the manager. But your boss wants the booth set up a certain way, and you decide you don't want to run it how he wishes. How long are you gonna keep your job? It's no different. Now that Butler is unshackled from "the guru" he can run things the best way he knows how. And it won't require everyone calling him a "genius" all day every day. He won't have that massive ego to drag around.
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2014
- Messages
- 7,497
- Reaction score
- 5,032
- Points
- 113
Never said it was hard to grasp. You are trying to justify your position by splitting hairs. Worilds rushed a ton this year. He was stoned often by TEs and RBs. He was NOT 7 yards behind the LOS. He rushed off the edge just like all OLBs do. The idea that he was stuck in his ways because of 5 years is just nuts. It makes no sense at all when every football person in the business says DL was one of the most adaptive DC in football. Anybody can get stuck... even 60 year olds.
But since you think it's all DLs fault I expect the defense to be at least in the top 5 next year right? No excuses.
P
POP
Guest
Straw man much? I NEVER said they would be a top 5 D, I said they could move up a few slots with a guy younger than 80 calling the shots. They were 15th in yards against and middle of the pack in points against, giving up 23 points per game. With Butler, and some more modern game planning, I could see them approach the top 10; I never said top 5, so stop putting words in my mouth.
It's already been reported that Butler will put an emphasis on finding a legit edge rusher and upgrading the CB position. Those sound like good ideas to me. Oh, and this just in, with the ending of allowing Troy to freelance - and constantly guessing wrong - that is gonna go a long ways to reducing the # of plays we get gashed on. Towards the end of his Steeler career, DL sucked at stopping huge plays. Under his leadership, the D was god awful at stopping the big yardage plays.
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2014
- Messages
- 7,497
- Reaction score
- 5,032
- Points
- 113
LOL.. LeBeau is younger than 80. Also do you think DL didn't want to find legit edge rusher and upgrade at the CB? Is Butler going to cut Jones? Oh, is Butler in charge of the draft and FA now? Wow this guy has never been a DC before but he obviously has a ton of power. Oh and this just in- it's a lot easier to say the right things than do them. I know the defense better be a lot better if not then I expect people to say he's too set in his ways and teams have figured him out already.