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With Lebeau gone, would be be better off with a base 4-3?

C

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I ponder this. The Nose Tackle position is part time these days in a passing league and our Nose Tackle players offer little rushing ability and limited range for tackling. Outside of 3rd and very short or goalline, the value isn't there.

We play more nickel and dime than anything else, which requires a good 4 man rush.

If we switched to a base 4-3, our front seven would look like this:

DE Dupree
DT: Heyward
DT Tuitt
DE: Harrison

OLB: Timmons
ILB Shazier
OLB: Moats ( Would need an upgrade but Moats would be phased out in nickel and dime.)

IMO, our best base pass rush would always be on the field in this formation, and we have plenty of speed, coverage and tackling ability with Shazier and Timmons in the nickel.

We would need to draft DL, perhaps in round one with Billings, or pick a player like Nassib, who has incredible production and did well at the Senior Bowl.

Bottom line: This is Harrison last season, and Jarvis Jones isn't very good. What's the point in running a 3-4 if your OLB aren't great pass rushers? The time to switch could be after the draft and free agency.
 
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more of this 3/4 and 4/3 nonsense... its all overrerated... there aren't really well defined positions like the old days anyhow... Safeties line up as linebackers and linebackers as Dlinemenn, everyone is getting small and fast.. why are you all so hung up on what is called what... it don't matter especially since most plays we are running basically 5 defensive backs and I bet soon its 6...
 
madinsomniac said:
more of this 3/4 and 4/3 nonsense... its all overrerated... there aren't really well defined positions like the old days anyhow... Safeties line up as linebackers and linebackers as Dlinemenn, everyone is getting small and fast.. why are you all so hung up on what is called what... it don't matter especially since most plays we are running basically 5 defensive backs and I bet soon its 6...
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It matters for a few reasons.

1 ) its easier to go nickle from the 4-3 on the fly
2 ) In a 4-3, you can have 4 DL players who can rush the passer at all times, In the 3-4, the NT is pretty much a non factor rushing the passer
3 ) Our OLB's are a group are well below par of past 3-4 defenses from 1990-2013.
 
SteelerAl said:
Our base defense is our nickel defense which is a 4-2-5.
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Then to continuing beating a dead horse, McClendon and Jones do not have much value. I'd like to see DL picked early this year.
 
Coach said:
Then to continuing beating a dead horse, McClendon and Jones do not have much value. I'd like to see DL picked early this year.
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Jarvis is one of the 4 in 4-2-5, Coach. That part has never changed, our two OLBs play up on the LOS when we go nickel or dime...essentially becoming 4-3 DEs. McLendon has value in the sense that if we don't show that we are capable of stopping teams from running the ball down our throat when they go heavy, then they will do just that. Defenses need to be versatile, Coach, you don't seem to get that...you are always looking to draw simple, broad conclusions...

P.S. Are you ever going to learn how to spell McLendon's name correctly? For all the **** you give him (which is totally misguided in my opinion), it's the least you could do.
 
I don't think it will work as outlines. Harrison would never hold up as a DE - too short, too old. I am not sure if Tuitt and Heyward make ideal 4-3 DTs either.

I am not against going 4-3, but not with that personnel.
 
I wouldn't change the "base" defense, but they need to add a pass rusher who can stick his hand in the dirt from their four-man front. I'd also consider getting a big, in the box safety like Cravens who could line up as a linebacker or safety if they are going to play five defensive backs that often. We need another big body on the field to help defend against the run and a hybrid player could help.
 
Coach said:
It matters for a few reasons.

1 ) its easier to go nickle from the 4-3 on the fly
2 ) In a 4-3, you can have 4 DL players who can rush the passer at all times, In the 3-4, the NT is pretty much a non factor rushing the passer
3 ) Our OLB's are a group are well below par of past 3-4 defenses from 1990-2013.
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Offenses have to give teams chances to sub now, so changing on the fly isn't as big a deal
#2 is an outright untruth. Teams double team a good NT thus making it easier for others to get free... If Casey Hampton was left single blocked and was told to eat the QB he could and would destroy him up the middle, as we saw a handful of times it happened on early downs.
#3 changes year to year...plus the Olbs in a 3/4 are the Des in the 4/s so I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here? Jarvis Jones OLB would just be Jarvis Jones DE and you still wont be happy
 
SteelerAl said:
Jarvis is one of the 4 in 4-2-5, Coach. That part has never changed, our two OLBs play up on the LOS when we go nickel or dime...essentially becoming 4-3 DEs. McLendon has value in the sense that if we don't show that we are capable of stopping teams from running the ball down our throat when they go heavy, then they will do just that. Defenses need to be versatile, Coach, you don't seem to get that...you are always looking to draw simple, broad conclusions...

P.S. Are you ever going to learn how to spell McLendon's name correctly? For all the **** you give him (which is totally misguided in my opinion), it's the least you could do.
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Jarvis isn't very good in the nickel. Very few sacks and QB pressures. McLendon has even less value than Jones on 3rd down and long. If the Steelers upgrade these two, and our base pass rush or ability to make plays is upgraded. Our secondary needs all the help it can get.

Our team weakness is pass defense, ranked 30 out of 32 teams. If the run D slips just a little without McLendon, but the pass defense improves to average, the team will be better off.

I'm okay with a multi-skilled 4-3 DT or a better edge rusher in round one and two.

I agree with the versatility point. That's one reason I'd like better than McLendon.
 
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Coach said:
Jarvis isn't very good in the nickel. Very few sacks and QB pressures. McLendon has even less value than Jones on 3rd down and long. If the Steelers upgrade these two, and our base pass rush or ability to make plays is upgraded. Our secondary needs all the help it can get.

Our team weakness is pass defense, ranked 30 out of 32 teams. If the run D slips just a little without McLendon, but the pass defense improves to average, the team will be better off.

I'm okay with a multi-skilled 4-3 DT or a better edge rusher in round one and two.

I agree with the versatility point. That's one reason I'd like better than McLendon.
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Mclendon is probably better suited as a Dt than a NT...he isn't the short squat NT ....you'd be getting the same guy...
 
3-4, 4-3, 4-2, doesn't matter if your safeties can't cover bread with a bag and your corners jump routs and give up long gains. The secondary is a joke. Until it's upgraded it doesn't matter if you have 4 or 5 guys back there, we are in big trouble in little china.
 
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