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Winston no longer the first round pick?

A while ago when the possibility of a trade involving Ben was discussed the quarter backs in this draft were discussed rather well. The general consensus was that there was not a good (franchise worthy QB) in this draft. All of them had problems and were likely to be some type of project. Again this is just a general summation of the draft class. Regardless of a players talent level when selecting him the team also gets all the baggage that comes with him, drugs, alcohol addiction, immaturity and criminal behavior. It is not possible to separate the behavior issues from the football issues as the nonfootball issues can make the player unavailable to the team.

I truly hope there are 4 or 5 quarterbacks selected before pick number 22 as everyone of them selected drops a higher talent in a position of need to the Steelers. Same thing with wide outs, if 4 or 5 of them are taken before are first pick that would really help us out.
 
Superman said:
watching ESPN while at the gym - Merril compared Winston to Leftwich. He said if he were to draft an offensive player who could come in and help right away, he'd take Gurley. He sees Winston as a project. Merril said his pocket movement is going to effect him in the NFL - pointing to the Louisville and Notre Dame games as evidence.

Herman Edwards was baffled.

so obviously Merril is 100% correct.
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Merril has a nose to call out busts, and knows what he's talking about. Edwards is a nice man, but his comments are rather poor. He's either terrible at getting his point across or knows shocking little for a head coach.
 
Coach said:
Merril has a nose to call out busts, and knows what he's talking about. Edwards is a nice man, but his comments are rather poor. He's either terrible at getting his point across or knows shocking little for a head coach.
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Maybe Merril would be a good guy to have in the front office. I have to agree regarding his comments and evaluations of players and the game in general he seems way ahead of many. I wonder why the steelers have not approached him about being part of the front office, or if they have why he chose not to accept. I suspect if he was in the program we might not have taken some or maybe even all of the turkeys and busts we have in the last say ten to fifteen years. I cannot for the life of me remember the steelers scout that has the draft room named after him but that guy was a huge talent for the team and found lots of great players. I do not know that anyone of his caliber has been part of the team since.
 
Wingman said:
I truly hope there are 4 or 5 quarterbacks selected before pick number 22 as everyone of them selected drops a higher talent in a position of need to the Steelers. Same thing with wide outs, if 4 or 5 of them are taken before are first pick that would really help us out.
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This x10.
 
Hoge called out Vince Young as a bust as well. I think he apologized to Young later after he had a decent season... but he ended up being right.
 
Besides being an idiot off the field, I haven't seen anything on the field that would make me take Mariota over Winston.
 
Bigappleyinzer said:
Around this time of the year- the NFL and its writers will often create false narratives in order to create controversy and to receive more 'clicks'...

Actually, no different than your everyday Coach thread:beer:
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Coach has me drinking more than my teens cause me to drink...
 
I wouldn't draft either of them. One is a gimmick qb and the other makes stupid decisions. I can see him melting down in the NFL.
 
Wingman said:
Maybe Merril would be a good guy to have in the front office. I have to agree regarding his comments and evaluations of players and the game in general he seems way ahead of many. I wonder why the steelers have not approached him about being part of the front office, or if they have why he chose not to accept. I suspect if he was in the program we might not have taken some or maybe even all of the turkeys and busts we have in the last say ten to fifteen years. I cannot for the life of me remember the steelers scout that has the draft room named after him but that guy was a huge talent for the team and found lots of great players. I do not know that anyone of his caliber has been part of the team since.
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Wingman,

I agree 100%. I'd take either Mayock or Hoge as a front office /scout type. Two former steelers killing it on TV and calling it right more often than the others. The Steelers have a few past players as scouts. It's tough to be a scout. You are on the road all the time. I'm not sure if Merril wants it or not. TV is a pretty good gig!

Our best scout is likely Phil Kreidler, who had the Southern area of the nation for years and was an advocate/ scouted players like Lloyd,D.J Johnson, Barry Foster, Bam Morris, Ophres Roy, Carlos Emmons, Deshea Townsend, and Ike Taylor. All mid to late round picks from the South. Very impressive....

Krediler found quite a few mid to late round gems in the draft! The Steeler promoted him recently to head scout. I'd pay money to see who pounded the table for Jarvis Jones between him Colbert and Tomlin!

Unfortunately the Steelers also hired Colbert's and Butler's son as scouts. I see this as a conflict of interests, and wonder if they are really qualified.

Could Krediler be our next GM? Maybe...

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/...wo-scouts-promote-others/stories/201305090388
 
Apparently Winston's wonderlic score tested close to Peyton.
 
Winston is easily the second best prospect in the last 5 years behind Luck. Not even worth debating.


Leftwich is a poor and lazy comparison. Optically, they have the same throwing motion (which he can correct now that he's done w/baseball)- but thats about it. In fact, Winston is painstakingly similar to Ben that its hysterical. From his presence in the pocket, ability to extend plays, big arm, and extracurricular activity (ahem). From a football standpoint, he either plays with the intelligence of a Peyton, or the recklessness of his brother Eli. Whatever the case may be, Winston has a really high floor (Eli) and a potentially high ceiling (Ben/Peyton lite)


Also, Hoge suggested that the Colts take Griffin over Luck. So lets pump the brakes on taking his word as gospel...
 
Coach said:
Wingman,

I agree 100%. I'd take either Mayock or Hoge as a front office /scout type. Two former steelers killing it on TV and calling it right more often than the others. The Steelers have a few past players as scouts. It's tough to be a scout. You are on the road all the time. I'm not sure if Merril wants it or not. TV is a pretty good gig!

Our best scout is likely Phil Kreidler, who had the Southern area of the nation for years and was an advocate/ scouted players like Lloyd,D.J Johnson, Barry Foster, Bam Morris, Ophres Roy, Carlos Emmons, Deshea Townsend, and Ike Taylor. All mid to late round picks from the South. Very impressive....

Krediler found quite a few mid to late round gems in the draft! The Steeler promoted him recently to head scout. I'd pay money to see who pounded the table for Jarvis Jones between him Colbert and Tomlin!

Unfortunately the Steelers also hired Colbert's and Butler's son as scouts. I see this as a conflict of interests, and wonder if they are really qualified.

Could Krediler be our next GM? Maybe...

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/...wo-scouts-promote-others/stories/201305090388
Click to expand...

Coach,

I also seem to remember Aaron Smith doing an internship or undergoing training as a scout for the Steelers. I would love to see how he is doing in this regard.
 
Bigappleyinzer said:
Winston is easily the second best prospect in the last 5 years behind Luck. Not even worth debating.


Leftwich is a poor and lazy comparison. Optically, they have the same throwing motion (which he can correct now that he's done w/baseball)- but thats about it. In fact, Winston is painstakingly similar to Ben that its hysterical. From his presence in the pocket, ability to extend plays, big arm, and extracurricular activity (ahem). From a football standpoint, he either plays with the intelligence of a Peyton, or the recklessness of his brother Eli. Whatever the case may be, Winston has a really high floor (Eli) and a potentially high ceiling (Ben/Peyton lite)


Also, Hoge suggested that the Colts take Griffin over Luck. So lets pump the brakes on taking his word as gospel...
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Is winston the kid that was caught steeling crab legs among other things? I think that sort of thing would move him out of the best prospect class rather quickly, same thing for any evidence of drug and or alcohol abuse.
 
Wingman said:
Is winston the kid that was caught steeling crab legs among other things? I think that sort of thing would move him out of the best prospect class rather quickly, same thing for any evidence of drug and or alcohol abuse.
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Stealing crab legs and shouting out obscenities is much more correlated with immaturity. Drugs and alcohol abuse? Not so much.

Peyton Manning in 1996, while still a junior, sat his bare *** on the unexpected female face of the team doctor. Balls, grundle, shaft and all. So yes, even Peyton was immature back in his day.
 
One of the knocks about Winston that I've read on here is that he's not "intelligent". When it was said that scouts/front office people who interviewed him at the combine said he had a very high football IQ, the response was somewhere along the lines of "that's football intelligence, but he's not very 'smart'".

So, Winston's Wonderlic score was leaked yesterday. He scored a 27. The score for a person of average intelligence is a 20; and Peyton Manning scored a 28 (is Peyton dumb?).

Btw, Mariota scored a 33; two points shy of Aaron Rodger's score of 35.
 
I suspect that the comment about smart does not deal with football or typical school tests but might deal with right from wrong issues, or choosing to not engage in self destructive behavior. Guys on here lump it into immaturity but it maybe more than that. This kid might need to really be checked out in depth before grabbing him as a future franchise guy, he could be the next Ryan Leaf and everyone knows where he ended up.

Now it is also possible this kid could get his act together and be the next great find as well, but that does not sound like a 50-50 shot but more of a long shot. He could also end up going the route of that raders qb, can't remember his name, who became addicted to codeine and ruined his career. Many of these kids begin doing things like huffing to get high as it does not show up on drug screens but can be really damaging in a fairly short time.
 
Wingman said:
I suspect that the comment about smart does not deal with football or typical school tests but might deal with right from wrong issues, or choosing to not engage in self destructive behavior. Guys on here lump it into immaturity but it maybe more than that. This kid might need to really be checked out in depth before grabbing him as a future franchise guy, he could be the next Ryan Leaf and everyone knows where he ended up.

Now it is also possible this kid could get his act together and be the next great find as well, but that does not sound like a 50-50 shot but more of a long shot. He could also end up going the route of that raders qb, can't remember his name, who became addicted to codeine and ruined his career. Many of these kids begin doing things like huffing to get high as it does not show up on drug screens but can be really damaging in a fairly short time.
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I get what you're saying, and I would call what he might be lacking "common sense". Interesting to me is the fact that people think the kid can't/won't get his act together. As an example of someone who was sued for committing a lewd, outrageous and what could have been described as a sexual assault, I give you ... Peyton Manning. Not much talk of it now (or during his draft year), but apparently while at TN Peyton decided it would be a good idea to sit his entire ***, rectum, nuts and penis on the face of a female staff doctor. Seems to me that once Peyton got to the NFL, he had no problems becoming the "face of the franchise" or "the face of the NFL". It will be interesting to see which direction Winston goes, but what we can already see is that for all the similarities that people point out that he potentially has to Manning, there is one big area that he is not being given the same treatment as Peyton received ...

http://thebiglead.com/2014/09/18/peyton-manning-1996-tennessee-lawsuit-trainer-bare-butt-mooning/
 
That act equates well to the manning act. However it does not to my knowledge show a pattern of behavior. Winston has at least two instances that became public and that concerns me more than the fact of what was actually done. I would be concerned about a pattern of bad behavior. I suspect that since there were court orders regarding the manning incident and the ability to discuss it there might be a lot we don't know about. Although I would have been advocating caution regarding him as well if I was looking at him as potential selection to build the franchise around and was aware of this type of behavior. Does not mean I would not choose either one, just means I look at them in a real detailed manner so that the risks can be properly evaluated.


Joe Gilliam, Jr.
Football player
Joseph Wiley Gilliam, Jr. was a professional football player, a quarterback with the Pittsburgh Steelers of the National Football League for four seasons. Primarily a backup, he started the first six games of the 1974 season. Wikipedia
Born: December 29, 1950, Charleston, WV
Died: December 25, 2000, Nashville, TN
Education: Tennessee State University
Spouse: Barbara Gillam (m. ?–2000)
Children: Joi, Dominique Gillam, Lawanda Gillam
Parents: Joe Gilliam, Sr., Ruth Gilliam
 
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