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What is wrong with the run game?

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SteelerSask2

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First off this is not a ***** whine thread. Steelers played great yesterday. Other than this aspect possibly their most complete game in a so far undefeated season. That said, I think we all know that they have to be able to run the ball. They lengthened the game substantially if they have to close out like they did yesterday. Also, if you come up against someone who can at least deal with the pass, you have a problem. My opinion is that it is blocking scheme not Conner, though at this point I would consider other options at Running back. The things that seem to be working are some draws, some of the jet sweep motions are holding linebackers and allowing for quick hitters. At the beginning of the year they were running what seemed to be very slow developing zones and traps. That **** is just getting blown up right now. Part of me feels like the lack of a blocking TE is the issue. When Vance comes back, I would be tempted to put Vance and Watt out there with Watt in search and see if they can get this moving. The problem with trying to win by formation and personnel is it invited the defense to pack the box. I think you have to have Claypool and Juju as legit passing threats one on one.
 
I feel like we to often telegraph our intentions by formation and there is no guess work involved on the part of the defense. I can almost always tell you when they are going to run. If I can I know the other teams can as well. We really need to pass more from a run look to setup the running game.
 
I think it is play calling compounded by a lack of execution. Those wide runs with Conner are stupid. The line obviously can't block those plays, so it only makes the play call even more stupid. Also, it doesn't seem like the line is doing much pulling in the run game. Looks like straight up run blocking the guy in front of you and it's not working. They certainly have their work cut out for them to try and fix it.
 
5. Nowhere to Run – Four one hundred yard rushers in the first five games. The last two weeks they have played teams whose run defense has been in the bottom third in the league both of which were giving up 5 yards per carry. The offensive line and running backs are healthy. So what is wrong? Is it from running the same plays over and over again? Is it too much lateral running? This has gotten to a point the last two week were it is embarrassingly bad. Thirty-eight carries for 90 yards over the last two games isn’t going to cut it. This offense needs to step outside of the box and not do what other teams expect

.https://Invalid Link - Check SN Home Page/2020/11/toms-ten-takes-steelers-vs-bengals-3/


So 4 of 5 games at beginning of the season we have 100 yd rushers. This isn't a Sean Serritt problem. We also had Derek Watt for those games.
 
Black & Gold Bleeder said:
5. Nowhere to Run – Four one hundred yard rushers in the first five games. The last two weeks they have played teams whose run defense has been in the bottom third in the league both of which were giving up 5 yards per carry. The offensive line and running backs are healthy. So what is wrong? Is it from running the same plays over and over again? Is it too much lateral running? This has gotten to a point the last two week were it is embarrassingly bad. Thirty-eight carries for 90 yards over the last two games isn’t going to cut it. This offense needs to step outside of the box and not do what other teams expect

.https://Invalid Link - Check SN Home Page/2020/11/toms-ten-takes-steelers-vs-bengals-3/


So 4 of 5 games at beginning of the season we have 100 yd rushers. This isn't a Sean Serritt problem. We also had Derek Watt for those games.
Click to expand...

But to be fair what was Watt's snap count in those games? And I don't know, but it didn't seem like much.
 
We seemed to run downhill better in the first 5 games. Also Conner was one cut running and hitting the outside nicely after committing to an inside run. I've seen 2-3 plays each of these games where he is missing those outside cuts and missing out on big yardage. I was a big proponent of running the sweep and the inside run off of that same look, but Cincy gamplanned for 2 weeks on how to stop it, and they did. Even when we tried to go tot he goal line end around to Chase.

When you look at a defense's statistics on how poorly they are as a running team, that is not the defense you are necessarily facing. Dallas got Vandeer Eche and their NT back for the game they played against us. Just think about how we got gashed in the run without our playmaking ILB and NT. They are a much better D than what is on paper. Cincy got to rest up and game plan for 2 full weeks. They played to stop the run, but as Dallas and the Ravens showed, you can not beat this team by stopping the run, because you can't stop Ben.

The Ravens D is built for this. at 10pt lead at the half and shut down the run game should be an automatic W for the way that team is built in the secondary. But Ben spread them out and picked them apart. This is what every team in the league has to contend with, and I don't know of a defense built to stop Big Ben more than the Ravens.

The Steelers have to get back to more downhill, power running between the tackles. We seemed to own the LOS the first 5 weeks with this style. We're changing up to an outside running team, and it didn't work. I understand the wrinkle Fichtner threw in on a week where we didn't have Ben in practice, but we have to be better. Watt needs to be on the field, and Ebron is not a blocking TE the way Vance is. It's back to the drawing board again this week.

And to be fair, the outside running plays looked like the Bengals called our play on Techmo Bowl. Everyone was splitting gaps and they had more defenders than we had blockers. That's a big reason why we got our ***** kicked on the outside.
 
We ran much better earlier in the season. The last couple games have been awful. Ben gives Conner the ball 5 yards in the backfield and he is hit almost immediately. The line is back to doing no run blocking. Not sure what the problem is. They blocked for the run well when DeCastro was out hurt. If he has problems run blocking at this point in his career, they better start looking at his replacement.
 
What about Dotson? The kid is a future star on the OL. There is no denying it. Get the kid in the lineup and let him maul some people. Maybe he could be an added spark. When McDonald comes back, go to a two-tight end look, FB, RB and throw or run from there. Perhaps Snell and Conner as sidecars. Or gulp, maybe Claypool in the wildcat (actually running the ball) no stupid ****.
 
I think that we are just a team that uses the pass to set up the run. Of course, having more than two sets for a run game might help, maybe some PA or flea flicker, just to keep the D guessing. It would help if the defenses we face had to keep guys at home to prevent Ben from being Ben. Then they couldn't stack the line. We use zero deception, except to deceive our coaching staff that we can do what ever we want to and it will work.
 
Seems like we would have a much better run game with Ben under center, but he prefers shotgun and shotgun expands your audibles. Strength of team is the 5 WR's and we are playing to our strength.
Might need to get RB's more involved with screens and short passing.
 
troymania said:
What about Dotson? The kid is a future star on the OL. There is no denying it. Get the kid in the lineup and let him maul some people. Maybe he could be an added spark. When McDonald comes back, go to a two-tight end look, FB, RB and throw or run from there. Perhaps Snell and Conner as sidecars. Or gulp, maybe Claypool in the wildcat (actually running the ball) no stupid ****.
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I agree about Dotson...since his PT has diminished with the return of Decastro or not play at all, like yesterday, our run game is putrid!

Time to move Feiler back to tackle and insert Dotson as left guard...

Chunky's strength is passpro...not run blocking..and Feiler doesn't seem to be much of a mauler on the inside to me..
 
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Conner should run forward. When he starts dancing there is no question why he will never be invited to Dancing with the Stars.
 
They don’t need to get back to the days of ground and pound. They just need to be better than 2.8 ypc. Getting back to the balanced offense attack will help our defense when gassed. Conner does well with the zone blocking scheme and straight ahead. Everyone is right on about the wide runs outside. He isn’t that back.
 
The run game has been bottom of the league bad for 3 years where have you guys been??
All you James Conner truthers first it was he's an all pro if he's healthy.
Then it was because ben was out.
Now it's just the playcalling and O-line.

Face it
Bell made everyone from the o-line to the coaching look much better than they were.
James Conner just isn't what you guys thought he was.
He's one of the worst backs in the league over the past 3 years.
Numbers don't lie
 
bigben said:
The run game has been bottom of the league bad for 3 years where have you guys been??
All you James Conner truthers first it was he's an all pro if he's healthy.
Then it was because ben was out.
Now it's just the playcalling and O-line.

Face it
Bell made everyone from the o-line to the coaching look much better than they were.
James Conner just isn't what you guys thought he was.
He's one of the worst backs in the league over the past 3 years.
Numbers don't lie
Click to expand...

No but numbers can certainly be manipulated to suit ones argument. When I watched him yesterday there is no way he wasn't running as hard as the first five games. I didn't see anything but a wall in front of him on almost all of those attempts.
 
We can't run sideways unless it is a jet sweep. We need to run north-south. It would also help if we had a FB in there in a non-obvious running situation. I think we are better with Snell hitting the hole than Conner running sideways. I wonder if switching Feiler inside has weakened the run game or are we not pulling Pouncey as much as we used to? DD was also hurt to start the year, is he still playing hurt?
 
bigben said:
The run game has been bottom of the league bad for 3 years where have you guys been??
All you James Conner truthers first it was he's an all pro if he's healthy.
Then it was because ben was out.
Now it's just the playcalling and O-line.

Face it
Bell made everyone from the o-line to the coaching look much better than they were.
James Conner just isn't what you guys thought he was.
He's one of the worst backs in the league over the past 3 years.
Numbers don't lie
Click to expand...

And yet, Conner has been better than Bell in EVERY STATISTICAL CATEGORY since LeVeon decided to take an extended vacation.

Hey, I want to see more out of the run game than anyone, but Bell wasn't all that. He got TONS of short runs, 4 to 6 yards. He almost never broke a big play and he very rarely scored. Bell was a pretty car that couldn't handle offroad driving. I get tired of the rose-colored Bell glasses. Again, Conner has been better in every statistical category.

That said, since Munch left, the line has really deteriorated, at least in the run game. I get frustrated watching Conner get tackled on what appear to be terrible runs too, but frankly, more often than not he ends up running into a wall of defenders. When he has a hole, he almost always breaks 8 to 10 yards. But there just aren't too many holes.
 
I think I would look at all the factors and consciously narrow it down to try to improve. For example, if on film it seems like its Feiler is the issue and you think Dotson can hold up in pass pro then I try. If you think it is Conner try Snell. Try different run schemes. It might even cost you a game, but to me if you cannot run in the playoffs, you cannot win.
The Pats* routinely didn't care too much about the first 5 games to fix their problems. All these stacked wins has afforded this team the opportunity.
 
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SteelerSask said:
I think I would look at all the factors and consciously narrow it down to try to improve. For example, if on film it seems like its Feiler is the issue and you think Dotson can hold up in pass pro then I try. If you think it is Conner try Snell. Try different run schemes. It might even cost you a game, but to me if you cannot run in the playoffs, you cannot win.
The Pats* routinely didn't care too much about the first 5 games to fix their problems. All these stacked wins has afforded this team the opportunity.
Click to expand...

I'd like to see more of Snell than Conner out there in the run game. Our traditional run has been to pull a guard around the other side of the line and that play works well but if that is our main run, we need to find another play to open up some running lanes. We can work in some play action and get teams to bite on the run if they are going to stack the line against us.
 
wig said:
And yet, Conner has been better than Bell in EVERY STATISTICAL CATEGORY since LeVeon decided to take an extended vacation.

Hey, I want to see more out of the run game than anyone, but Bell wasn't all that. He got TONS of short runs, 4 to 6 yards. He almost never broke a big play and he very rarely scored. Bell was a pretty car that couldn't handle offroad driving. I get tired of the rose-colored Bell glasses. Again, Conner has been better in every statistical category.

That said, since Munch left, the line has really deteriorated, at least in the run game. I get frustrated watching Conner get tackled on what appear to be terrible runs too, but frankly, more often than not he ends up running into a wall of defenders. When he has a hole, he almost always breaks 8 to 10 yards. But there just aren't too many holes.
Click to expand...

Bell was the better back when he was in Pittsburgh.
In fact he had the most yards from scrimmage per game for any RB in the history of the NFL.

He was Far Better than James everyone but you knows it. You do too, you can't be that stupid, just to proud to admit you were wrong.
 
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