Something I notice since last year or so LB

[biscuits4u2]

anybody ever notice since Joey Porter left our outside linebacker game has increased

ever since Butler took over the outside linebacker coaching spot
we look so much better just kind of wondering if Jarvis would have been worth a ****

he made Dupree into a beast

 

[slashsteel]

No Jarvis lacked the athleticism and heart to be a factor, but Butler has improved the unit...

 

[Ron Burgundy]

 

[BLITZ]

It sure helps when you have a TJ Watt

 

[Coryea]

Porter was the OLB coach for Watts first two seasons I believe, but Watt did very well, so he doesn't get any credit for that?

 

[FSF]

Porter was the OLB coach for Watts first two seasons I believe, but Watt did very well, so he doesn't get any credit for that?

To be honest, no. As much as I loved Joey Porter as a player, thinking he is was equally good as a coach is just a halo effect.

Two reasons why Joey Porter was not a NFL level coach:

1. He’s too emotional. While this work for him as a player, it worked against him as a coach where you need to keep your emotional intelligence high.

2. Joey Porter what is a Hall of Fame level linebacker. His statistics would have reflected it more if he cared more about padding his #s vs. winning — But we’ve seen this many times in many sports: Great players rarely are great coaches and the best coaches who were players were rarely superstars.

TJ Watt had the advantage of his brother to help him prepare and let’s give TJ Watt the credit for putting in the work.

TJ Watt Is a very special talent and a lot of teams regret passing up on him.


Sent from my iPhone using Steeler Nation mobile app

 

[diver]

I think Porter would be a fine coach...the second time around. He has to learn that as a coach, you can't be one of the guys. You have to separate. It took me a little when I was a young coach to learn that.

 

[Drink IRON City]

anybody ever notice since Joey Porter left our outside linebacker game has increased

ever since Butler took over the outside linebacker coaching spot
we look so much better just kind of wondering if Jarvis would have been worth a ****

he made Dupree into a beast

Yes and I was an advocate of getting rid of Porter as a coach. He was trying to live glory through his players, NOT his coaching. The fact that he was "friends" with SBWCMVLT lengthened his stay dramatically as other teams would have let him go way sooner. His after midnight bar brawling scene would have vacated his position elsewhere also. Once that unit actually received true coaching it had no where to go but up. TJ WATT was / is an exceptional talent but with proper coaching hjas excelled that talent. Porter was NOT elevating TJ but living off of TJ's talent.

OUR special teams coach should be gone as well as his "friendship" is a portion of what's keeping him employed as well.





Salute the nation

 

[Coryea]

I think the move to ROLB and the emergence of Watt has helped Dupree way more than Porter leaving did.

 

[Steelworth]

I think the move to ROLB and the emergence of Watt has helped Dupree way more than Porter leaving did.

Pure speculation. I'll also speculate. Joey Porter is not currently employed as a coach, anywhere. The switch for Dupree and the OLB duties (more rushing the passer and less dropping into coverage) seemed to occur around the time Porter was relieved of his duties. I think the whole LB unit would be considered top five (if not higher) at this point, and Joey Porter is not here.

So while I will always love Joey Porter the player and the passion he brought to the game, I don't miss Joey Porter the coach and I don't think you should miss him either.

 

[steel dino]

Butler and Porter were both a step over their heads in the roles they each had the past several years..

Joey was a great player but is not "coach" material...

and Butler is a much better position coach than a coordinator....I know Butler is still coordinator in title, but I believe Tomlin and even John Mitchell are much more involved in that role now..

 

[Coryea]

I don't know if Porter was a good coach, crap coach, or average, none of us do, but great players are going to be great regardless who the positional coach is, I don't put much stock in positional coaches in the NFL, good players are going to be good players.
Matt Feiler has become a better player and starter after Munch left, is anyone really going to to say Munch held him back?
Porter had very little to do with Dupree's slow start and just like Porter had very little to do with Watt's fast start. I could be the OLB's coach and Watt would be doing just as well.

 

[Hoot]

Watt was a much more polished prospect coming out of college. A great deal of that had to do with his family knowledge and exposure to NFL level knowledge of the game. Very very few players come into the league with as much polish as Watt.

Dupree was a known project coming out of college after being moved all over the defense. He was basically a jack of all trades, master of none coming into the league. He was a first round pick because of his athleticism, but known he would need molding.

Watt has remained relatively injury free. Dupree had some injuries his first couple years that slowed down his development.

Dupree was flipped to the other side and that makes everything like footwork and hand fighting reversed. Takes some reps to polish it.

Would I have liked to see Dupree develop a bit faster? yup. But he his doing very well now and I do not buy into the "he just started trying in a contract year" bit. Never been one complaint about his work ethic over the years that I have heard.

Would I like to keep him - ya!! dude is a beast now. but I also know he is gonna get cha-ching on the open market and we have too many too sign. It was going to be a challenge to keep him next year before the possible covid cap hits. Now...it may be a challenge to keep several studs. My thought - enjoy the Dupree-Watt-Cam-Tuitt-Bush front while it lasts. It will be fun.

 

[Coryea]

Actually Watt was not polished, pedigree yes, but he was was a TE in college until 2016, he only played two years of defense before getting drafted.

 

[Hoot]

Actually Watt was not polished, pedigree yes, but he was was a TE in college until 2016, he only played two years of defense before getting drafted.

fair. but I do think he was much more polished than Bud coming out.

 

[Coryea]

fair. but I do think he was much more polished than Bud coming out.

That's because he was/is a better player, although drafted later than both Bud and Jarvis. Bud and Jarvis were full time defensive players from day 1 in college, Watt only played in 22 college games. On paper Watt needed more coaching than the other two.

 

[Hoot]

That's because he was/is a better player, although drafted later than both Bud and Jarvis. Bud and Jarvis were full time defensive players from day 1 in college, Watt only played in 22 college games. On paper Watt needed more coaching than the other two.

I don't argue Watt was a better player coming out - that is what I meant when I said he had more polish than Bud and that Bud was a known project. It doesn't matter what was "on paper" - the reality was exactly what you said - Watt was a better player coming out. If your concern is about their draft slotting, I don't care about what slot they were drafted. I was discussing where they were in there readiness when they came to the team.

 

[Coryea]

I don't argue Watt was a better player coming out - that is what I meant when I said he had more polish than Bud and that Bud was a known project. It doesn't matter what was "on paper" - the reality was exactly what you said - Watt was a better player coming out. If your concern is about their draft slotting, I don't care about what slot they were drafted. I was discussing where they were in there readiness when they came to the team.

I brought up draft position because all the so called experts had Jarvis and Bud projected higher than Watt, they thought they'd be better, my point is that positional coaching doesn't have a ton to do with a player being good or bad, it's more about that player wanting to be good and putting the work in.

Butler going back to coaching the OLB's made Dupree better, but Butler was coaching the OLB's for Jarvis's first two season, that didn't help Jarvis at all.

 

[Hoot]

I brought up draft position because all the so called experts.

which is fine. i figured and why I pointed out I don't get into the draft positioning discussions. People are passionate about it. I am not (anymore anyway - used to be die hard).

positional coaching doesn't have a ton to do with a player being good or bad, it's more about that player wanting to be good and putting the work in.

I think positional coaches may have more impact than you give credit for, but we would might be splitting hairs there a bit. The second part of your statement is so spot on though. I have heard from several different sources from former GM's and Current and former coaches about a lot of guys liking to work on things they are good at but not so much working on things they are weaker. It is uncomfortable to admit limitations and uncomfortable doing the thigns you need to improve them. A lot is on player desire as you say. A lot of what a positional coach does is act as a set of eyes a player cant see for themselves.

I have lots of stories like this, but will share a baseball one. A former player of mine was playing an adult fast pitch league. We also played a lot of slow pitch softball together. he was struggling with the men's baseball team and thought it was something in his swing. I was asked to come to a game - friends so I did. I watched him go down swinging on his first at bat. He and his dad were sure it was his wrist roll. I said, "No, it is your timing. You are swinging way too late and the ball is past you before you get the bat to the front of the plate." They laughed, I filmed the next at bat and showed them. They agreed very quickly with my assessment.

From a technique and mechanics perspective, it is very easy for a player to slip - a good coach sees and corrects. But back to your point, a player has to be willing to make those corrections. Good positional coaches also know how to teach and present these things. If you never read Harvey Penick's Little Red book - go get it. Yea, it is golf, but it is a short read and the guy just new how to teach. Anyway, To be great, you have to want it first, but you also need those good observer eyes to help you stay on track.

 

[slashsteel]

Nobody needs to look past what Munch and Drake brought to their positions. Positional coaches matter as the right one can help a player squeeze out talent -maximize it. Sure the player has to be self motivating, talented etc. But you can't leave positional coaches out of the equation. Far as not knowing what Joey was? sure we do if he was worth a damn he wouldn't have been shown the door.IF he was worth a damn he would be still coaching in the NFL.

Seen so many times a OC or a DC let go and a new one come in causing major improvements or a nose dive in their perspective areas.

Position coaches matter.

 

[SteelerFan448]

I think the move to ROLB and the emergence of Watt has helped Dupree way more than Porter leaving did.

The coaching staff completely mismanaged Dupree early in his career. This move was huge for both Dupree and Watt as it put both players on their strong side. They also stopped dropping them into coverage as much and allowed both to get after the quarterback. The results have been fantastic ever since these changes were made.