Our Defense Really is Old

[deljzc]

We've talked a lot about how our defense is getting younger but so far that hasn't come to fruition on the field.

This was a great article I just found today on Football Outsiders which doesn't just average the age of your roster, but your average age BY SNAP COUNTS.

If you can believe it, the Steelers were the oldest defense in the league using this metric SEVEN STRAIGHT YEARS (2007 to 2013). That's the first seven years of Tomlin's tenure here.

Last year, we finally lost our top spot and fell to 3rd overall in the league (Keisel and Harrison still had a lot of snaps last year).

I just thought it was a great way to really measure age on a team and it certainly doesn't necessarily correlate to anything positive or negative.

It just really proves Tomlin and Lebeau's reliance on veterans in their roster decisions.


http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2015/snap-weighted-age-2014-nfl-rosters

 

[21STEELERS21]

The problem with that chart is that it is old information. Included in the chart are Troy, Ike, Keisal, Worlds. And none of them will take a snap for the Steelers in 2015.

 

[slashsteel]

The problem with that chart is that it is old information. Included in the chart are Troy, Ike, Keisal, Worlds. And none of them will take a snap for the Steelers in 2015.

so that makes the link only relevant to last year

I bet that percentile goes down significantly by years end.

 

[Wingman]

We've talked a lot about how our defense is getting younger but so far that hasn't come to fruition on the field.

This was a great article I just found today on Football Outsiders which doesn't just average the age of your roster, but your average age BY SNAP COUNTS.

If you can believe it, the Steelers were the oldest defense in the league using this metric SEVEN STRAIGHT YEARS (2007 to 2013). That's the first seven years of Tomlin's tenure here.

Last year, we finally lost our top spot and fell to 3rd overall in the league (Keisel and Harrison still had a lot of snaps last year).

I just thought it was a great way to really measure age on a team and it certainly doesn't necessarily correlate to anything positive or negative.

It just really proves Tomlin and Lebeau's reliance on veterans in their roster decisions.


http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2015/snap-weighted-age-2014-nfl-rosters

So this year figure a nominal number per game say 50 snaps and figure who will be where for the new season. No Ike, Brett, Troy and fill in the other guys for one game I'll bet the age goes down.
Harrison 25
Jones 25
Dupree 15
Motes 35
Timmons 50
Shazier 30
Williams
C. Allen 50
Gay 50
Golson 20
Shamarko 40
Holliman 10
Mitchell 50
Tuitt 40
Heyward 40
McCullers 25
Gethers 25
Mcclendon 20
The line men would be in a rotation and I suspect McCullers and Gethers might take over the nose and McClendon can rotate with the ends and that would keep those guys very fresh.
What would that do to your age calculation? just as a hypothetical because we will be younger this year by a lot.

 

[Coach]

We've talked a lot about how our defense is getting younger but so far that hasn't come to fruition on the field.

This was a great article I just found today on Football Outsiders which doesn't just average the age of your roster, but your average age BY SNAP COUNTS.

If you can believe it, the Steelers were the oldest defense in the league using this metric SEVEN STRAIGHT YEARS (2007 to 2013). That's the first seven years of Tomlin's tenure here.

Last year, we finally lost our top spot and fell to 3rd overall in the league (Keisel and Harrison still had a lot of snaps last year).

I just thought it was a great way to really measure age on a team and it certainly doesn't necessarily correlate to anything positive or negative.

It just really proves Tomlin and Lebeau's reliance on veterans in their roster decisions.


http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2015/snap-weighted-age-2014-nfl-rosters

Now the defense is quite young. Tomlin inherited super bowl level defense and a franchise QB. The main problem is the Steelers have not replaced many of the best defenders who retired from 2007-2014 in the draft or free agency Most of the drafted defenders who became starters to replace our best were a notch or two below the man they replaced. Only Heyward appears to be a true upgrade from his predecessor.

The starting defense for our last super bowl win was:

DL Smith, Hampton, Keisel.
LB Harrison, Timmons, Woodley, Farrior
DB Taylor, Gay/McFadden, Polamalu Clark

Do we have anyone today better than what we had years ago? Heyward would be one and Timmons is better now than he was then. That is it.

 

[Vader]

We've talked a lot about how our defense is getting younger but so far that hasn't come to fruition on the field.

This was a great article I just found today on Football Outsiders which doesn't just average the age of your roster, but your average age BY SNAP COUNTS.

If you can believe it, the Steelers were the oldest defense in the league using this metric SEVEN STRAIGHT YEARS (2007 to 2013). That's the first seven years of Tomlin's tenure here.

Last year, we finally lost our top spot and fell to 3rd overall in the league (Keisel and Harrison still had a lot of snaps last year).

I just thought it was a great way to really measure age on a team and it certainly doesn't necessarily correlate to anything positive or negative.

It just really proves Tomlin and Lebeau's reliance on veterans in their roster decisions.


http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2015/snap-weighted-age-2014-nfl-rosters

Doesn't mean jack to me. LeBeau had to rely on vets. Name the vet and what year you wanted to get rid of him and who you would have replaced him with. The fact is they had to hold on to some of them like Ike, Troy and Harrison because they had no one else. Tombert has sucked on drafting defensive players. I know everything is going to be great because Butler is going to make them a top 10 defense because of all those great schemes he has been hiding but who doesn't think they are going to get torched against NE (if Brady plays), SD, Colts and the Broncos?

Age means nothing without production. Also you aren't looking at wide age ranges. The "oldest" team is 28.3 while the "youngest" team is 25.2. 3 years spread across how many players?

One more thing. Timmons is one of the oldest on the defense. He's "gasp" 29. Anybody want to say they need to get rid of him? The best ROLB is Harrison. Want to cut him and give it to Jones? Just those two cuts would probably drop the age a bit. Anybody want to do that? All this is why I don't care about average age or oldest players ETC... I just want production at whatever age they are.

 

[diver]

Doesn't mean jack to me. LeBeau had to rely on vets. Name the vet and what year you wanted to get rid of him and who you would have replaced him with. The fact is they had to hold on to some of them like Ike, Troy and Harrison because they had no one else. Tombert has sucked on drafting defensive players. I know everything is going to be great because Butler is going to make them a top 10 defense because of all those great schemes he has been hiding but who doesn't think they are going to get torched against NE (if Brady plays), SD, Colts and the Broncos?

Age means nothing without production. Also you aren't looking at wide age ranges. The "oldest" team is 28.3 while the "youngest" team is 25.2. 3 years spread across how many players?

One more thing. Timmons is one of the oldest on the defense. He's "gasp" 29. Anybody want to say they need to get rid of him? The best ROLB is Harrison. Want to cut him and give it to Jones? Just those two cuts would probably drop the age a bit. Anybody want to do that? All this is why I don't care about average age or oldest players ETC... I just want production at whatever age they are.

Right. Who gives a **** how old they are if they get the job done. If they don't, which the Steelers have not, you get younger. I just don't think age really has that much to do with it. Talent does.

 

[Wingman]

Now the defense is quite young. Tomlin inherited super bowl level defense and a franchise QB. The main problem is the Steelers have not replaced many of the best defenders who retired from 2007-2014 in the draft or free agency Most of the drafted defenders who became starters to replace our best were a notch or two below the man they replaced. Only Heyward appears to be a true upgrade from his predecessor.

The starting defense for our last super bowl win was:

DL Smith, Hampton, Keisel.
LB Harrison, Timmons, Woodley, Farrior
DB Taylor, Gay/McFadden, Polamalu Clark

Do we have anyone today better than what we had years ago? Heyward would be one and Timmons is better now than he was then. That is it.

Heyward is a good player but he is not on the level of any of the three during that time period. Smith, Hampton and Keisel if you want to go four Von Olhofen. Those guys were a rare bunch the guy who was Hamptons backup was real good as well, Hoke

 

[Black & Gold Bleeder]

rays of sunshine

 

[Wingman]

To me the biggest thing the average age shows is that you are continually adding talent to your team if you are in the middle of the range. If you are in the lowest you likely just replaced a bunch of guys cause they sucked, if you are in the oldest you either have a team ful of stars that the younger guys can't break into the line up or your drafts suck lately.

 

[Litos]

Heyward is a good player but he is not on the level of any of the three during that time period. Smith, Hampton and Keisel if you want to go four Von Olhofen. Those guys were a rare bunch the guy who was Hamptons backup was real good as well, Hoke

Heyward has already surpassed Keisel's play, if you don't believe me just wait for his next contract and compare it with the top 3-4 DEs in the league

 

[Drink IRON City]

I'll say, that is a great reaD TO THE OP. I do like the fact that our age was based on snap counts VS physical age only. It's just another great way, to look at things a little different. Like many here, OUR "D" will drop in age a lot after this season. I agree with Vader, PRODUCTION, should be the main judgment of a players ability. NOT solely age. A guy named "Butz" from the washington redskins, would've been out of the nfl about 5-8 years early if age judgement was only used.



Salute the nation

 

[Coach]

Heyward has already surpassed Keisel's play, if you don't believe me just wait for his next contract and compare it with the top 3-4 DEs in the league

I agree. Hewyard is a pro bowl level 3-4 DE entering his prime. Keisel made the pro bowl once, but he was more of a decent starter type, not really a star.

 

[Wingman]

I agree. Hewyard is a pro bowl level 3-4 DE entering his prime. Keisel made the pro bowl once, but he was more of a decent starter type, not really a star.

So has he made the pro bowl?

 

[ark steel]

I thought making or not making the Pro Bowl didn't mean ****. It would mean more to me if the fan vote was weighted to be a very small part of the overall votes. I wish they would release the votes by group.

Keisel was more than a 'decent starter type'.

 

[SteelerSask2]

This should be one of the youngest defenses in the league this year. I'm not getting this thread.

 

[SteelerAl]

I thought making or not making the Pro Bowl didn't mean ****. It would mean more to me if the fan vote was weighted to be a very small part of the overall votes. I wish they would release the votes by group.

Keisel was more than a 'decent starter type'.

The players are worse than fans when it comes to Pro Bowl voting. They vote only on reputation. They don't have time to study anything but the guy they go up against on the next Sunday.

 

[stuntmanmike]

Iron head 2 is one of the best de's in the game right now. Dude gets double even tripled team in our scheme. In seattles scheme where he is going mono on mono with tackles or guards even tightends he would kick serious ***.

 

[Coach]

So has he made the pro bowl?

How many seasons did it take for Keisel to make the pro bowl?

This isn't a knock on Keisel, he had a very good career with the Steelers.

Hewyard is the better player. I think he is a pro bowl level football player. One more good reputation year could do it.

 

[SteelerSask2]

Brett Keisel was just a hair less of a player than A. Smith. Even after they brought him back he was one of the best on the Dline and that was WELL after his best days. Brett Keisel was born to play in this defense. Like Smith he had a relentless motor which is required to play Dline in this scheme. Heyward looks very good and Tuiit could be as well. Both have a ways to go to reach Keisel in my opinion.

 

[Vader]

Brett Keisel was just a hair less of a player than A. Smith. Even after they brought him back he was one of the best on the Dline and that was WELL after his best days. Brett Keisel was born to play in this defense. Like Smith he had a relentless motor which is required to play Dline in this scheme. Heyward looks very good and Tuiit could be as well. Both have a ways to go to reach Keisel in my opinion.

I agree with this. Remember Heyward is starting on a defense with the worst stats of any Steeler defense since Noll's last year. I've seen this defense, and Heyward, get manhandled up front. Remember the 2 clown games? 191 yards rushing the first game then 158 the 2nd game. It wasn't just that LBs weren't filling the gaps. The DL was pushed out of the way and couldn't get off blocks. And that doesn't even touch the horrible passing stats. If Heyward were taking up 3 people then the QB would be toast. But he isn't. And it's been happening for 2 years now even with Heyward. I remember several games where he has played very badly. They gave up 4.4 YPC last year.

So right now Heyward is a good player but he's no Keisel's yet.

 

[slashsteel]

I agree with this. Remember Heyward is starting on a defense with the worst stats of any Steeler defense since Noll's last year. I've seen this defense, and Heyward, get manhandled up front. Remember the 2 clown games? 191 yards rushing the first game then 158 the 2nd game. It wasn't just that LBs weren't filling the gaps. The DL was pushed out of the way and couldn't get off blocks. And that doesn't even touch the horrible passing stats. If Heyward were taking up 3 people then the QB would be toast. But he isn't. And it's been happening for 2 years now even with Heyward. I remember several games where he has played very badly. They gave up 4.4 YPC last year.

So right now Heyward is a good player but he's no Keisel's yet.

a reasonable analysis

although better NT play could help. But yeah Heyward is just good at this point. If we can get improvement from Tuitt and at NT it damn sure will make the ILBers jobs easier.

Will be interesting to see if a new DC can motivate / teach and push them along a little further.

 

[nooneuno]

Likely starters this year

DE: Heyward (26)
DT: McLendon (29)
DE: Tuitt (22)

OLB: Jones (26)
ILB: Shazier (23)
ILB: Timmons (29)
OLB: Moats (27) Possibly Dupree (22)

CB: Allen (27)
CB: Gay (30)
FS: Mitchell (28 )
SS: Thomas (24)

Our defense was old......

 

[slashsteel]

Likely starters this year

DE: Heyward (26)
DT: McLendon (29)
DE: Tuitt (22)

OLB: Jones (26) Possibly Harrison
ILB: Shazier (23) Possibly Spence/Williams
ILB: Timmons (29)
OLB: Moats (27) Possibly Dupree (22)

CB: Allen (27) Possibly Blake
CB: Gay (30)
FS: Mitchell (28 )
SS: Thomas (24) Possibly Allen

Our defense was old......

FIF Yinz

 

[steelermania]

Now the defense is quite young. Tomlin inherited super bowl level defense and a franchise QB. The main problem is the Steelers have not replaced many of the best defenders who retired from 2007-2014 in the draft or free agency Most of the drafted defenders who became starters to replace our best were a notch or two below the man they replaced. Only Heyward appears to be a true upgrade from his predecessor.

The starting defense for our last super bowl win was:

DL Smith, Hampton, Keisel.
LB Harrison, Timmons, Woodley, Farrior
DB Taylor, Gay/McFadden, Polamalu Clark

Do we have anyone today better than what we had years ago? Heyward would be one and Timmons is better now than he was then. That is it.

William Gay today is better than the Gay/McFadden combo back then.