• Please be aware we've switched the forums to their own URL. (again) You'll find the new website address to be www.steelernationforum.com Thanks
  • Please clear your private messages. Your inbox is close to being full.

James Conner - The Worst Starting RB in NFL?

FSF

FSF

The Agile Financial
Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2014
Messages
1,529
Reaction score
2,162
Points
113
I'll admit that the clickbait got me - so I won't embed the link as it was bs article.

Nonetheless: James Conner is a key component of this upcoming season. Even in the Buffalo game -- it was obvious that he was a difference maker, then he got hurt again.

A Qualitative Risk Analysis of him is that based on his history, its a low probability he'll make it through the season.

I'd increase this risk due to 2 factors:
  • His Style
  • Mike Tomlin


His Style:
The best RB for comparison purposes is Eddie George. Power RBs that aren't "Big Backs" (Riggins, Bettis, Csonka, Campbell) but are leaner and more muscular. Now Conner is no Eddie George -- that dude was made of granite - a genetic freak. But he took a pounding and declined fast with a ton of injuries.

Conner's work ethic is that of a coaches dream and in incredible. But he tries to run over guys too much like George, hence he's even higher risk.

Mike Tomlin:
Mike Tomlin just has this ridiculous philosophy of running his backs into the ground.
Like them or not, he over used Willie Parker, Rashard Mendenhall and Le'Veon Bell.

Bell was the WORST case, with quality reserves in Deangelo Williams and Blount.

We've entered the 2011, 2014, 2015 playoffs limping in at Running Back and Bell couldn't make it through 1 offensive series in the 2016 AFC Championship Game.
 
I'll never understand MT's RB philosophy. When DW was still playing at a very effective level, he was rarely used, but should have been. I always go back to the Cleveland tie game where JC gets 36 touches and is the ONLY RB to carry the ball. It was clearly evident dude was gassed when he fumbled in the 4th, but more on my mind was why run him like that? It doesn't make sense so unless something changes in that philosophy, carrying 5 RBs is a waste of (potentially) 2 roster spots.
 
I remember a playoff game where we were clearly kicking their ***. BELL could have sat the entire 4th quarter but NO, CMVLT kept running him and he did set a record for play off yardage but then a game or two later he couldn't hardly finish that 1st series against the cheatriots. Tomlin definitely over uses running backs and it's a shame. Run-eM-till the wheels fall off


EDIT: NOT sure if PO game or not, may have been leading up to play off game


Salute the nation
 
Bell had monster games in the playoffs leading up to the P*ts loss. As I remember, Miami and KC. Could be wrong, but both were huge games and I think he set a record in one of them. (Wanna say Miami.)
 
Looking at the numbers, Tomlin has had a back with over 300 carries 3 times, Parker in 2007, Mendenhall in 2010, and Bell in 2017. Cowher did it 6 times, Parker in 2006, 4 times with Bettis (missing a 5th by one carry in 1999), and of course the insane 390 carries by Barry Foster in 1992. For the record, Franco only topped 300 carries twice, but you have to take into account that he played six 14 game seasons (although he did have 300 carries in a 14 game season in 1977).
For comparison, I looked to see how many 300+ carry seasons other elite backs have had in recent years. Adrian Peterson has had over 300 carries 4 times. Steven Jackson 3 times. Emmitt Smith 7 times. Barry Sanders 7 times. Corey Dillon 4 times. Curtis Martin 8 times. Marshall Faulk 2 times. LaDainian Tomlinson 7 times. Edgerin James 7 times. Tiki Barber 4 times. Eddie George 8 times, including an insane 403 carries in 2000. On the low side, you have LeSean McCoy, and surprisingly, Marshawn Lynch with 2, Fred Taylor with 1, and unsurprisingly, Warrick Dunn with zero. What the numbers tell you, is that coaches with elite backs tend to give them the ball. Looking at those numbers, other than Barry Foster, Cowher's usage wasn't excessive, and the crying about Tomlin is mostly bullshit, related to his making the "run the wheels off" comment.
 
Drink IRON City said:
I remember a playoff game where we were clearly kicking their ***. BELL could have sat the entire 4th quarter but NO, CMVLT kept running him and he did set a record for play off yardage but then a game or two later he couldn't hardly finish that 1st series against the cheatriots. Tomlin definitely over uses running backs and it's a shame. Run-eM-till the wheels fall off


EDIT: NOT sure if PO game or not, may have been leading up to play off game


Salute the nation
Click to expand...

The Miami game I believe it was.

The problem is that Tomlin lacks introspection and once he decided to run the wheels off Willie Parker, there was no turning back.
 
For me the only thing that holds JC back is his injuries. If he stays healthy he should have a solid season heading into free agency.
 
ZonaBurgh said:
Injuries are the number one factor, Conner averages about 4.5 yards per carry and coughs it up roughly the same percentage as Elliott or McCaffery.

Hardly the worst RB in the league.
Click to expand...

FWIW: I just referenced an article I saw — just clickbait

Conner is quality RB. Just question his ability to make it through the year.


Sent from my iPhone using Steeler Nation mobile app
 
steelermania said:
Looking at the numbers, Tomlin has had a back with over 300 carries 3 times, Parker in 2007, Mendenhall in 2010, and Bell in 2017. Cowher did it 6 times, Parker in 2006, 4 times with Bettis (missing a 5th by one carry in 1999), and of course the insane 390 carries by Barry Foster in 1992. For the record, Franco only topped 300 carries twice, but you have to take into account that he played six 14 game seasons (although he did have 300 carries in a 14 game season in 1977).
For comparison, I looked to see how many 300+ carry seasons other elite backs have had in recent years. Adrian Peterson has had over 300 carries 4 times. Steven Jackson 3 times. Emmitt Smith 7 times. Barry Sanders 7 times. Corey Dillon 4 times. Curtis Martin 8 times. Marshall Faulk 2 times. LaDainian Tomlinson 7 times. Edgerin James 7 times. Tiki Barber 4 times. Eddie George 8 times, including an insane 403 carries in 2000. On the low side, you have LeSean McCoy, and surprisingly, Marshawn Lynch with 2, Fred Taylor with 1, and unsurprisingly, Warrick Dunn with zero. What the numbers tell you, is that coaches with elite backs tend to give them the ball. Looking at those numbers, other than Barry Foster, Cowher's usage wasn't excessive, and the crying about Tomlin is mostly bullshit, related to his making the "run the wheels off" comment.
Click to expand...

One level data means nothing. You’re referencing carries only.

Emmitt Smith, Adrian Peterson, Jerome Bettis, Eddie George, Shaun Alexander & Curtis Martin are examples of HoF RBs who got lot of carries — but also were not 3rd down RBs; not involved heavily in passing game.

RBs are used a lot more in passing game & are used on 3rd down far more often. So you can up those touches plus time on field (to say nothing about receptions plus blocking)

And the players you used to illustrate your point—most are all-time greats. Unique grade talents. How many guys can take that pounding all year long?

I’d prefer Tomlin lighten the load—Conner 2/3 series under normal course of game. Naturally each game is different—if it’s that late season game for AFC North—best is on the field period. Use good judgment.




Sent from my iPhone using Steeler Nation mobile app
 
FSF said:
One level data means nothing. You’re referencing carries only.

Emmitt Smith, Adrian Peterson, Jerome Bettis, Eddie George, Shaun Alexander & Curtis Martin are examples of HoF RBs who got lot of carries — but also were not 3rd down RBs; not involved heavily in passing game.

RBs are used a lot more in passing game & are used on 3rd down far more often. So you can up those touches plus time on field (to say nothing about receptions plus blocking)

And the players you used to illustrate your point—most are all-time greats. Unique grade talents. How many guys can take that pounding all year long?

I’d prefer Tomlin lighten the load—Conner 2/3 series under normal course of game. Naturally each game is different—if it’s that late season game for AFC North—best is on the field period. Use good judgment.




Sent from my iPhone using Steeler Nation mobile app
Click to expand...

Smith and Martin both caught plenty of passes. Martin averaged 44 catches a season for his career. For comparison to another elite back, one that is a better example of a back that wasn't a major part of the passing game, the Bus averaged just over 15 catches a year. Willie Parker had 49 targets, and 32 receptions total during the 3 years he played under Tomlin. He was not at all a major part of the passing game. He actually had more carries, and more catches under Cowher in 2006, than he had under Tomlin in 2007, but no one ever complains about that, or the 390 carries, plus 36 catches Foster had in 1992. Now Bell, I'll buy that. I wonder if he would have been used so much had he signed an extension? There were some fans calling for Tomlin to run him into the ground, since he probably wasn't going to be here. By the way, Bell certainly compares favorably as a back to about half the guys I listed.
 
slashsteel said:
For me the only thing that holds JC back is his injuries. If he stays healthy he should have a solid season heading into free agency.
Click to expand...

Thing is, he's rarely if ever played a full season even going back to college.

steelermania said:
For the record, Franco only topped 300 carries twice, but you have to take into account that he played six 14 game seasons (although he did have 300 carries in a 14 game season in 1977).
Click to expand...

I'm old enough to remember Franco Harris playing and some people would bag on him for avoiding hits and running out of bounds. Okay, but when he retired he was second in career yardage and rarely missed a game with an injury. Franco would pick his spots but when that extra half yard didn't matter he'd run out of bounds and save it for later.
 
Last edited:
Ron Burgundy said:
Thing is, he's rarely if ever played a full season even going back to college.



I'm old enough to remember Franco Harris playing and some people would bag on him for avoiding hits and running out of bounds. Okay, but when he retired he was second in career yardage and rarely missed a game with an injury. Franco would pick his spots but when that extra half yard didn't matter he'd run out of bounds and save it for later.
Click to expand...

Probably a major reason why a guy who carried the ball that much is in relatively good shape at 70 years old. You are absolutely correct that Franco ran hard when the yards were crucial, but would avoid punishment when there was little to be gained. We all enjoyed watching Earl Campbell fight for every yard as though his life depended on it, but damn, he's paid a high price for that style.
 
Ron Burgundy you are spot on!

Franco would let Rocky plow up the middle, take on a LB, and then Franco would slip around them and he was off to the races.

Most DBs were too small to stop him when he got out into the open.

As for Earl Campbell, remember when our DB Wagner met him head on and stopped him OUCH!!!

Jerome Bettis was like an M1 Abrahams tank in the 3rd and 4th quarters. A BIG MAN! Ray Lewis of the Ravens says Jerome was the toughest guy he had to tackle. Was like hitting a full grown Oak tree.
 
skline00 said:
Ron Burgundy you are spot on!

Franco would let Rocky plow up the middle, take on a LB, and then Franco would slip around them and he was off to the races.

Most DBs were too small to stop him when he got out into the open.

As for Earl Campbell, remember when our DB Wagner met him head on and stopped him OUCH!!!

Jerome Bettis was like an M1 Abrahams tank in the 3rd and 4th quarters. A BIG MAN! Ray Lewis of the Ravens says Jerome was the toughest guy he had to tackle. Was like hitting a full grown Oak tree.
Click to expand...

I never remember Wagner stopping Campbell. Is it on youtube? I remember Donnie Shell breaking his ribs though.
 
skline00 said:
Ron Burgundy you are spot on!

Franco would let Rocky plow up the middle, take on a LB, and then Franco would slip around them and he was off to the races.

Most DBs were too small to stop him when he got out into the open.

As for Earl Campbell, remember when our DB Wagner met him head on and stopped him OUCH!!!

Jerome Bettis was like an M1 Abrahams tank in the 3rd and 4th quarters. A BIG MAN! Ray Lewis of the Ravens says Jerome was the toughest guy he had to tackle. Was like hitting a full grown Oak tree.
Click to expand...

I miss that style of football with Jerome and a FB plowing the road before the bus came through. It was pure joy watching teams tap out in the 3rd and 4th quarters. They wanted no part of him by then. Barry Foster was another guy who was fun to watch although it was fairly short-lived. He was a force to be reckoned with .
 
Steelr4evr said:
I miss that style of football with Jerome and a FB plowing the road before the bus came through. It was pure joy watching teams tap out in the 3rd and 4th quarters. They wanted no part of him by then. Barry Foster was another guy who was fun to watch although it was fairly short-lived. He was a force to be reckoned with .
Click to expand...

That was when football was football. Good times.
 
Steelr4evr said:
I miss that style of football with Jerome and a FB plowing the road before the bus came through. It was pure joy watching teams tap out in the 3rd and 4th quarters. They wanted no part of him by then. Barry Foster was another guy who was fun to watch although it was fairly short-lived. He was a force to be reckoned with .
Click to expand...

We tend to think of Bettis running over people but much like Franco he was light on his feet and would often avoid taking big hits. Also like Franco he missed very few games with injuries.
 
  • Like
Reactions: FSF
skline00 said:
Ron Burgundy you are spot on!

Franco would let Rocky plow up the middle, take on a LB, and then Franco would slip around them and he was off to the races.

Most DBs were too small to stop him when he got out into the open.

As for Earl Campbell, remember when our DB Wagner met him head on and stopped him OUCH!!!

Jerome Bettis was like an M1 Abrahams tank in the 3rd and 4th quarters. A BIG MAN! Ray Lewis of the Ravens says Jerome was the toughest guy he had to tackle. Was like hitting a full grown Oak tree.
Click to expand...

At time there was a survey or study where it was determined that The Most Difficult Feat In Pro Sports (based on the probability of success) was hitting a major league curveball. Second most difficult was tackling Jerome Bettis.
 
Steelin said:
It was the ballet! I miss the Bus and his smash mouth football to this day.
Click to expand...



You can thank fantasy football for that was the driving force in most rules changes. In so doing / generating higher scoring they had to make it WAY more pass / stat happy. That pound and drive offense of the **** was an anomaly and you saw how far that got them. Other teams may "copycat" but with today's "stat" driven rules I would highly doubt the cloud of dust will ever return.




Salute the nation
 
he runs good good power has learned watching bell fim how to be reciever i would say between eddie george and Carnell Williams is where he is at just add in good receiver.
 
Drink IRON City said:
You can thank fantasy football for that was the driving force in most rules changes. In so doing / generating higher scoring they had to make it WAY more pass / stat happy. That pound and drive offense of the **** was an anomaly and you saw how far that got them. Other teams may "copycat" but with today's "stat" driven rules I would highly doubt the cloud of dust will ever return.




Salute the nation
Click to expand...

Power football will never go out of style. What the titans did last year proved that. They just did not have enough to overcome weaknesses. With defenses getting softer and well most teams tackle like ***,it's the perfect time to bring the wood on the ground. I'm not sure the Steelers have guys who can run block at an elite level. They will have the passing game. They need to close it out late in games. Their defense has been of the same mindset for decades. Bring relentless pressure and get the other team off the field fast. That takes a ton of energy. The 60 minute men worked because they still had juice late in the games.The offense needs more than anything to eat clock later in games. They win a few superbowls with those squads if they have a top notch qb.

This year is ripe for the taking.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top