• Please be aware we've switched the forums to their own URL. (again) You'll find the new website address to be www.steelernationforum.com Thanks
  • Please clear your private messages. Your inbox is close to being full.

Idiotic Draft Takes

CoolieMan

Most Intelligent Poster
Moderator
Forefather
Joined
Apr 9, 2014
Messages
19,540
Reaction score
36,002
Points
113
Location
Heaven on Earth
okay....this is not to bash ANY posters on this site...

below is a story about one guys opinion on the biggest bust on draft analysis....

who do you think has the most idiotic draft take ...again NOT ON THIS SITE.....




https://houston.sportsmap.com/del-olaleye-its-draft-season-which-means-lot-idiotic-takes/


We’re in the middle of the least accountable time on the sports calendar. Analysts in a particular field make a pretty healthy living this time of year writing and saying things they never have to answer for. I’m talking about draft season, where only the internet has time to call you out on your awful misses. The business of the draft is a year-round thing. Writers and TV personalities for ESPN, CBS Sports and the NFL rank players by position throughout the year. The writers for these three outlets aren’t even a piece of lint when compared to the monster that is the totality of draft coverage. Every blogger has a position by position write up. Every sports network has a draft insider with a mock draft. I saw a different mock draft on the front page of CBSsports.com with Baker Mayfield’s name in the headline probably three times last week. The vast amount of outlets that produce draft content provide a sort of cover for awful evaluations of players and incorrect predictions on a team’s draft plans. You just can’t remember all the times someone was wrong. There are those special occasions though.

Do you remember a draft evaluation that was so bad that you hold it against the evaluator to this day? I still think about the time Mel Kiper ranked Logan Thomas the fourth best prospect in college football. Thomas played QB for Virginia Tech and Kiper was so enamored by the former Hokie’s physical tools that after a sophomore year that included 19 TDs and 10 INTs Kiper elevated Thomas to a top 5 pick. Some context to go along with that nonsense. Thomas’ sophomore year came a season after Cam Newton was selected #1 overall. Thomas and Newton are of similar builds but Newton was far more dynamic in the QB run-game. Newton totaled more yards rushing in his fourteen career starts at Auburn than Thomas did in his entire 4-year career.

Thomas peaked as a sophomore. His junior and senior years did not live up to the hype that Kiper bestowed on him but Kiper held steadfast and considered Thomas a potential first-round pick after a subpar junior year. The Arizona Cardinals eventually selected Thomas in the fourth round of the 2014 draft and that proved to be a mistake. Thomas has completed one pass in his entire career and was moved to tight end two years after getting drafted.

An evaluation so bad that’ll I’ll never forget it.

That evaluation of Thomas is not Kiper's most egregious flub and the thanks to the internet I don’t have to point them all out to you. Kiper, who may very well be the first draft insider, only faces scrutiny because of the size of his platform. Lesser known names continue to be wrong without any repercussions.

Kiper isn’t alone. I’m sure everyone can think of a guy who was so wrong that you would believe they never watched the prospect play. I won’t paint former Colts GM Bill Polian with that brush but some recents comments he made got me to do a little research. Polian had this to say on ESPN after evaluating Louisville QB Lamar Jackson: "Short and a little bit slight". Jackson is listed at 6’3” by the way. Polian goes on to voice other concerns that you might consider more valid. He talks about Jackson’s lack of accuracy and suggests that he won’t get away with running the football in the NFL. Polian sees Jackson’s physical abilities and thinks a transition to WR would be best. Those can be considered reasonable concerns but stature and build didn’t seem to be an issue in his evaluation of Johnny Manziel a couple of years ago. I wasn’t the only one to take notice. The internet will always keep the receipts. The employers of these “draft experts”? Not so much

The Dan Patrick Show provides a nightmare dreamscape for any draftnik. They bring NFL players on the show and read their draft profiles to them. For good TV they only read the weaknesses portion of those profile. ESPN 97.5’s Lance Zierlein provides the player write-ups for NFL.com and his evaluations are the profiles that show uses. The producers for the show now warn Lance when he could potentially catch some shrapnel from the players or fans who may not be thrilled with his evaluations. I work in the same office with Lance. I see the work he puts in for the draft. A miss by him can be considered an honest one. He does the work. I’m gonna doubt the same can be said for plenty of others.

When you’re working on mock draft 18.0 who has time for accountability?
 
Yeah I know Jackson has been getting somewhat slammed little on the board and a little off it. Some want him as a WR, etc. I tell you the more I dig, the more I like. His WR's had a high drop rate, perhaps altering his accuracy statistics. And there is no denying his athleticism. I think he could be a Vick type of QB. And early in his career Vick scared the **** out of defenses.

His concerns would be being able to go through his secondary reads, ability to read defenses.

But I am not convinced he won't develop into a threat. I guess it depends on what team he goes to, to help develop him. But I don't see him going off the board before pick 20. So you would think he would go to a semi stable team...........
 
I don't follow CFB but I'll just say that living across the river from Louisville, and working with the biggest Louisville homers you could possibly find, even they say he will never make it as a QB. All of them think his only chance is WR.
And I'm telling ya, these dudes swear that Teddy will be in the HOF. Straight homers.
 
I bet you he falls no lower than the Buffalo pick at the very very worst , the Vikings round 1.
 
I'm definately no "PRO-Bowl scout" for the draft but even I have seen Kipper get JACKED over a draftee that ended up busting........ Sometimes you wonder when you read the lesser known' shut then you come across a real good knowledgeable guy but he never gets published or broadcast. Like the artickle said, NO ACCOUNTABILITY as to hit or miss. Some put out every senerio they can think of then go back later and claim their success to the ONE out of 100 options they had right. Several here on this board are very good and a wealth of knowledge (they know who they are) and their synopsis is about as good as any, paid or not. Thank you to all the great / medium / poor analysis' along the way as it gives us different angle to absorb things. PeAce



Salute the nation
 
I'm definately no "PRO-Bowl scout" for the draft but even I have seen Kipper get JACKED over a draftee that ended up busting........ Sometimes you wonder when you read the lesser known' shut then you come across a real good knowledgeable guy but he never gets published or broadcast. Like the artickle said, NO ACCOUNTABILITY as to hit or miss. Some put out every senerio they can think of then go back later and claim their success to the ONE out of 100 options they had right. Several here on this board are very good and a wealth of knowledge (they know who they are) and their synopsis is about as good as any, paid or not. Thank you to all the great / medium / poor analysis' along the way as it gives us different angle to absorb things. PeAce



Salute the nation

Yeah Kiper is hit or miss.
I prefer Mike Mayock ten fold. The guy knows his stuff
 
Yeah Kiper is hit or miss.
I prefer Mike Mayock ten fold. The guy knows his stuff



Mayock definately comes off as way more knowledge able. Kipper has to suck you in with his bravado or no one would even watch him.!!!!!



Salute the nation
 
PFT all but called Polian a racist for suggesting Jackson move to WR. He may be listed at 6'3 but let's see what he measures for real at the combine. I doubt he is 6'3 and even if he is, he's thin as a rail. We all saw how often Vick was injured.

It is so stupid when they call it racist to suggest a black QB might try a different position where they don't suggest the same for a white QB. Maybe it's because most white QBs aren't able to play another position. Manziel couldn't play any other position. Plenty suggested Tebow switch to TE and he eventually did.
 
One pro football evaluator that blew Kiper and everyone else away..... Joel Buchsbaum. The guy knew how to evaluate football players. Gone too soon.


Sent from my iPad using Steeler Nation mobile app
 
PFT all but called Polian a racist for suggesting Jackson move to WR. He may be listed at 6'3 but let's see what he measures for real at the combine. I doubt he is 6'3 and even if he is, he's thin as a rail. We all saw how often Vick was injured.

It is so stupid when they call it racist to suggest a black QB might try a different position where they don't suggest the same for a white QB. Maybe it's because most white QBs aren't able to play another position. Manziel couldn't play any other position. Plenty suggested Tebow switch to TE and he eventually did.
I think you have QBs who run when things break down and others who scramble to pass. That gets factored in if the draftnicks think they will have a short shelf life. This society is too quick to pull that racist card. But that is for another thread another part of the board perhaps. But I don't think it is racist to want a athletic QB to change position if you think QB isn't the position for him in the NFL. Personally again I will go on record and saying Action Jackson will stay at QB and thrive there. As far as his size, someone that fast can avoid a lot of clean hits. He held up well in college too. We as a team have bigger needs, but if he falls I have a hard time seeing him as anything outside of the BPA.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Steeler Nation mobile app
 
I also like Jackson. Because of todays NFL he can be devastating. Especially not having to rush him in there. He could sit back and learn under Ben. Also liked Allen but now he has shot up the boards to where there is no more talk he will drop.. those were guys i liked because of massive upside and the fact we could of brought them along slowly.. jackson needs works on his mechanics but can make all the throws and doesnt look to run to early. Will stand in there. If we address some needs free agency and value at positions of need arent there in the first i wouldnt mind the pick.. JuJu was a value pick glad we didnt pass on him
 
I also like Jackson. Because of todays NFL he can be devastating. Especially not having to rush him in there. He could sit back and learn under Ben. Also liked Allen but now he has shot up the boards to where there is no more talk he will drop.. those were guys i liked because of massive upside and the fact we could of brought them along slowly.. jackson needs works on his mechanics but can make all the throws and doesnt look to run to early. Will stand in there. If we address some needs free agency and value at positions of need arent there in the first i wouldnt mind the pick.. JuJu was a value pick glad we didnt pass on him
We could always trade up or down. But yeah I want a free agent S or ILBer if I am going QB in 1. To be honest the Steelers should bring in those two positions before the draft regardless. Then you are more likely to stay true to their board. Instead of staying true to their board in regards to needs.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Steeler Nation mobile app
 
We could always trade up or down. But yeah I want a free agent S or ILBer if I am going QB in 1. To be honest the Steelers should bring in those two positions before the draft regardless. Then you are more likely to stay true to their board. Instead of staying true to their board in regards to needs.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Steeler Nation mobile app



Definately with yaz slash on the bringing in those two positions prior to the draft, S & ILB. I know a lot depends on what happens with BELL but at this point I bet FO is planing Franchise Tag and budgeting for that, hard to say as we don't have all the information. If we did bring in FA at those positions it would definately help in the draft as to panic picking.

O'course as fast as our STEELERS head up to give the "rog" our pick you'd think we are always in a panic..............


Salute the nation
 
They're totally dogging Jackson. I think he's a good football player. He may be even better in the NFL with better players around him than what he had at Louisville. You never know who is going to step up and who is going to not make it.
 
The problem is it’s very hard to evaluate QBs with all the gimmick college offenses. Most of these QBs have to be taught everything from scratch. They weren’t QBs, they were throwers.

Watch a college team with the flash cards sending in plays. They line up quickly and you will see them look to the sideline. Why? Because the coach is reading the defense for them and signaling in who to throw to. It’s just pitch and catch then.

Another issue with the running QB is often times they succeed because they are so physically dominant. Mike Vick had incredible talent. He was able to make great plays just by running around. ESPN made highlight reels of him and ignored the other ****** plays that lost the game.

You end up with a QB who doesn’t think he has to learn anything new. He can get by winging it, like he always did. RG3 fell into that trap too. By the time they realize they actually do need to learn how to read defenses and make plays from the pocket, it could be too late. Vick had to be humbled by going to jail before he accepted that he had stuff to learn.

so how do you evaluate these QBs? Which one will buy into being taught from scratch and not just using his feet? Which one will just keep scrambling and being erratic?

Deshaun Watson seems to have bought in. Sure, they put some RPO stuff in for him, but it worked so well because Watson made plays from the pocket.
 
1. Everyone of these draft guys is hit or miss, not just the talking heads, but those employed by the 32 NFL teams. There is enough evidence to show no matter how much they would like to say it is a science, it is also a crapshoot.

That being said,

2. My hesitation on Jackson is the his college coach, who has had modest success in multiple places, has never produced a NFL QB with similar success.


Sent from my iPhone using Steeler Nation mobile app
 
“I love Lamar Jackson. He’s gotten better and better each year. He does sit in the pocket. He can read defenses. He’s very poised. He takes a lot of shots downfield. He’s not running some dink-and-dunk system.”

—Former New York Giants director of player evaluation Marc Ross, fired by new GM Dave Gettleman in January, on the first-round Louisville prospect in an ESPN appearance Thursday.
 
“I love Lamar Jackson. He’s gotten better and better each year. He does sit in the pocket. He can read defenses. He’s very poised. He takes a lot of shots downfield. He’s not running some dink-and-dunk system.”

—Former New York Giants director of player evaluation Marc Ross, fired by new GM Dave Gettleman in January, on the first-round Louisville prospect in an ESPN appearance Thursday.

Might be a damn hard decide if he is sitting there a 28. But I have a feeling he goes before that.
 
Might be a damn hard decide if he is sitting there a 28. But I have a feeling he goes before that.

Definitely depends on how they fill out their needs in FA. But its tempting for me. I just knew it wasnt me who saw a guy who doesnt just take off. Most of his runs ar3 designed runs not scrambles. He will stand in there and make reads
 
Eh. I don't think the Steelers need to target a QB this season.
They need help on the defensive side of the ball.

Ben and *sigh*....even Landry can hold up one more season
 
Eh. I don't think the Steelers need to target a QB this season.
They need help on the defensive side of the ball.

Ben and *sigh*....even Landry can hold up one more season

Oh we know where the needs are. But when you have your board sitting there and you have QB rated easily higher than a S /ILB /OLB ? etc. I think I know what would happen in a standstill.

But in this case they could trade down.

Or there could be equal value there making it a easier choice.

Just that the Steelers are not afraid to follow their value, as we have seen in the past.


For better or worse.
 
I don't want Jackson in the first. Even if we sign an ILB and S in free agency, we still need defensive help. I think he'll be decent in the pros, but I don't want to reach for a QB. Now, if he's there in the 2nd round, absolutely pull the trigger.
 
Top