How much will the Steelers offense improve without Todd Haley?

[Coach]

How much will the Steelers offense improve without Todd Haley?

I took a look at the red zone rakings from https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/red-zone-scoring-pct?date=2018-02-05

In 2017, The Steelers ranked 18th overall in the NFL.
In 2016, The Steelers ranked 16th overall in the NFL.

With 2 Probowls and at least two other very good players on the Offensive Line, a pro bowl QB, a Pro Bowl, RB, a bulldozer for a full back, in addition to Ju-ju, and Bryant, these rankings are unacceptable

Now that Haley is gone, how much improvement do you expect to see in the 2018 season?

 

[Drink IRON City]

TOP 10 or better...........




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[Coach]

I voted top 9-12, which would be nice. Like I said early in the year, Todd Haley is going to put Chris Boswell in the Pro Bowl.

 

[slashsteel]

Some of it depends on health. But I think it could be a slight increase in redzone production. But not necessarily better than Haley's best year. Just better than his worse year, which was last year. Will be interesting if he runs some of his ol Memphis schemes. spread O's, up tempo. RPO's. A combo of all of this might just be what the Dr. ordered.

 

[Coach]

Haley's best year? Looking at his last five.

2013 - 16th
2013 - 19th
2015 - 13th.
2016 - 16th
2017 - 18th

I am pretty sure we can do better than 4 of his last five for and would take that bet.

A rating of 13th is better than average, but with our talent still under achieving.

 

[ark steel]

Due to such small sample sizes, RZ%, it can be skewed so very much by 1 success, especially, if you calculate TD's only.

What would you rather have? Average RZ attempts per game 3.9 and RZ TD's per game of 2.1 = 53.8% or 2.6 RZ Attempts per game and 1.6 RZ TD's per game. That gives you GB at #4...we scored almost as many RZ TD's per game than they even attempted. But hey, they were #4!!!

Cheese and Rice, i didnt even have to leave the site for that. Steelers are 6th in RZ TD's per game and 3rd in RZ Attempts per game.

From your lack of knowledge on the very stat you used, Jacksonville was #1 yet it is a big deal that our fuckface D couldnt stop them from scoring.

 

[steelhurt]

How much will the Steelers offense improve without Todd Haley?

I took a look at the red zone rakings from https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/red-zone-scoring-pct?date=2018-02-05

In 2017, The Steelers ranked 18th overall in the NFL.
In 2016, The Steelers ranked 16th overall in the NFL.

With 2 Probowls and at least two other very good players on the Offensive Line, a pro bowl QB, a Pro Bowl, RB, a bulldozer for a full back, in addition to Ju-ju, and Bryant, these rankings are unacceptable

Now that Haley is gone, how much improvement do you expect to see in the 2018 season?

What Coach, no love for AB? You left him off your cavalcade of stars. You’re slipping!


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[ark steel]

Half of those that are "better than average" according to you didn't even make the playoffs.

Easy for you to see?

I get to the RZ 4 times per game, and score twice each game. I'm at 50%. That puts me at #23.
You get to the RZ 1 time per game and score a TD each time. You are at 100%.

Who is the better scoring team? Duh.

 

[Sarge]

Who is to say it won't get worse? Our offense was humming late in the year. Yeah, we screwed the pooch in the playoffs. A change doesn't always mean improvement.

 

[Coach]

What Coach, no love for AB? You left him off your cavalcade of stars. You’re slipping!


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Missed AB. An oversight. Okay the best WR in the game, who really likes to celebrate when he scores. Only makes you wonder how Haley couldn't call the right plays. Also, Ben was something like 14/15 on QB sneaks. The new OC might call the play!

 

[Coach]

Half of those that are "better than average" according to you didn't even make the playoffs.

Easy for you to see?

I get to the RZ 4 times per game, and score twice each game. I'm at 50%. That puts me at #23.
You get to the RZ 1 time per game and score a TD each time. You are at 100%.

Who is the better scoring team? Duh.

The data is over the course of a season. Say 40+ RZ tries.

All top 5 red zone teams made the playoffs.

You are using a one game example to determine a season ranking...???

 

[steelhurt]

Missed AB. An oversight. Okay the best WR in the game, who really likes to celebrate when he scores. Only makes you wonder how Haley couldn't call the right plays. Also, Ben was something like 14/15 on QB sneaks. The new OC might call the play!

I don’t know Coach! I did like what Todd brought to the Steelers in that he may have added some years to Ben’s career. I do however think it was time for him to go.


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[antdrewjosh]

What was the RZ % under Arians??

 

[Ike Kelly]

You can expect changes this year. It’s already been written that Munch will have more input this year with game planning. Heck they’ve already intimated putting Ben in the Pistol formation more. That itself will be interesting.


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[Steelworth]

Who is to say it won't get worse? Our offense was humming late in the year. Yeah, we screwed the pooch in the playoffs. A change doesn't always mean improvement.

True, but the offense started humming right around the time Fichtner came down to the sidelines to apparently be the buffer between Ben & Haley. I don't know who was calling what, but it sure seemed like Ben was always engaged w/ Fichtner and they were running more no-huddle as opposed to earlier in the year. I thought Haley had some good play designs but didn't think he was a very good play-caller. Getting too cute or out-thinking himself, lack of play-action/roll-outs/sneaks and then getting too conservative w/ a lead. I don't know how it's going to look going forward either, but Pederson, Reich and co. for example, they asked Nick Foles what he liked and didn't like in their offense and they adjusted accordingly.

Even though Ben's a 2 time SB champ and future HOFer, I never heard of Haley doing that and can remember quite a few times Ben was looking disgusted out there.

 

[antdrewjosh]

2012 12th 55.10%
2011 17th 50.91%
2010 15th 52.46%
2009 22nd 48.21%
2008 14th 55.93%
2007 7th 59.32%

Under Arians

 

[ark steel]

The data is over the course of a season. Say 40+ RZ tries.

I knew you wouldn't understand....

As was my example...

In my example one team scores 32 TD's in the RZ on 64 tries...The other team scores 16 TD's on 16 RZ tries. Which team is better?

In my post prior, the Steelers went to the red zone an average of 3.9 times PER GAME and scored, on average 2.1 times PER GAME. GB went to the RZ, on average 2.6 times PER GAME and scored, on average 1.6 times PER GAME.

So, GB, over the season had 41.6 times. Scored 25.6 TD's.
Steelers went to the RZ 62.4 times and scored a TD 33.6 times.

They only GOT to the RZ 8 more times than we scored TD's in the RZ. But, according to your stat that you, clearly, don't understand, we are 18th in the NFL and they are 4th.

Who wants to be the team that is 4th in this stat and have 8 less TD's over the season (3-3.5 ppg less, btw)? No one would.

See if this works for you. You go to the RZ 1 time every game and score a TD. I go to the RZ 3 times in every game and never score a TD, but I kick a FG every time. What teams scores the most points? According to your stat one team is 100% successful and the other one never is. What are the records of the teams if they play each other 16 times and do exactly that in each game?

I wish there was some way to figure out which team has a ACTUAL better scoring offense. As stat that REALLY matters to the out come of a game. Maybe Points Per Game or something? A stat where the Steelers have been in the top 10 for the 2014-2017 years?

The real problem this year was that the Defense was 27th in RZ% this year after being 4th last year. That is a pretty big drop. Since most of the complaints I'm seeing about this year's D are the same I heard about last year's D and, probably, the year before, it is an odd occurrence.

 

[Coach]

2012 12th 55.10%
2011 17th 50.91%
2010 15th 52.46%
2009 22nd 48.21%
2008 14th 55.93%
2007 7th 59.32%

Under Arians

Who would you say had a better OL and Skill players to work with. Arians or Haley? An answer to the question is requested!

On second thought this could be a Tomlin thing too....I ponder if the Red zone was this bad under Cowher.

 

[Coach]

I knew you wouldn't understand....

As was my example...

In my example one team scores 32 TD's in the RZ on 64 tries...The other team scores 16 TD's on 16 RZ tries. Which team is better?

In my post prior, the Steelers went to the red zone an average of 3.9 times PER GAME and scored, on average 2.1 times PER GAME. GB went to the RZ, on average 2.6 times PER GAME and scored, on average 1.6 times PER GAME.

So, GB, over the season had 41.6 times. Scored 25.6 TD's.
Steelers went to the RZ 62.4 times and scored a TD 33.6 times.

They only GOT to the RZ 8 more times than we scored TD's in the RZ. But, according to your stat that you, clearly, don't understand, we are 18th in the NFL and they are 4th.

Who wants to be the team that is 4th in this stat and have 8 less TD's over the season (3-3.5 ppg less, btw)? No one would.

See if this works for you. You go to the RZ 1 time every game and score a TD. I go to the RZ 3 times in every game and never score a TD, but I kick a FG every time. What teams scores the most points? According to your stat one team is 100% successful and the other one never is. What are the records of the teams if they play each other 16 times and do exactly that in each game?

I wish there was some way to figure out which team has a ACTUAL better scoring offense. As stat that REALLY matters to the out come of a game. Maybe Points Per Game or something? A stat where the Steelers have been in the top 10 for the 2014-2017 years?

The real problem this year was that the Defense was 27th in RZ% this year after being 4th last year. That is a pretty big drop. Since most of the complaints I'm seeing about this year's D are the same I heard about last year's D and, probably, the year before, it is an odd occurrence.

STOP! You said

I get to the RZ 4 times per game, and score twice each game. I'm at 50%. That puts me at #23.
You get to the RZ 1 time per game and score a TD each time. You are at 100%.

You said per game, NOT per season. This is why your example was in fact a bit of a joke. Now your scrambling to fine one team to say its not so.

 

[antdrewjosh]

Who would you say had a better OL and Skill players to work with. Arians or Haley? An answer to the question is requested!

On second thought this could be a Tomlin thing too....I ponder if the Red zone was this bad under Cowher.

Or better yet what skill player is the common denominator??


2004 21st 49.23%
2005 4th 62.50%
2006 17th 50.00%

 

[Drink IRON City]

Thanks ark steel great explaination as to falter of a STAT. Score and score often is by far the best.



Salute the nation

 

[ark steel]

You said per game, NOT per season. This is why your example was in fact a bit of a joke. Now your scrambling to fine one team to say its not so.

OMG...yes, i said i get to the RZ 4 times PER game. Not 4 times in A game. See the difference? Do you know what PER game means? I didnt choose 4 and 2 all willy nilly as they, NOT coincidentally are close to what the Steelers did, PER GAME.

My example of 2 successes every 4 tries PER GAME versus 1 success for 1 try PER GAME works out exactly the same way if multiply each teams successes and tries by 16. This is not an advanced mathematical concept we are talking about here. It is meant to illustrate how looking at a state and not understanding it can lead you to dumb

I chose a team at #4 on the stat you don't understand to show you that, while the team is #4, not only did they score less TD's than we did in the RZ, they got TO the RZ only .5 times more PER GAME, than we did AND didnt make the playoffs. There are, absolutely, teams with higher precentages than we had who ALSO had higher #trips to the RZ and got, therefore, more TD's. I'd bet there aren't 17 of them....

So, try this again, think it through slooooooowly.

Anyone else not able to grasp this?

 

[ark steel]

The data is over the course of a season. Say 40+ RZ tries.

All top 5 red zone teams made the playoffs.

You are using a one game example to determine a season ranking...???

Uhhhhh, GB is #4.....

 

[Ike Kelly]

OMG...yes, i said i get to the RZ 4 times PER game. Not 4 times in A game. See the difference? Do you know what PER game means? I didnt choose 4 and 2 all willy nilly as they, NOT coincidentally are close to what the Steelers did, PER GAME.

My example of 2 successes every 4 tries PER GAME versus 1 success for 1 try PER GAME works out exactly the same way if multiply each teams successes and tries by 16. This is not an advanced mathematical concept we are talking about here. It is meant to illustrate how looking at a state and not understanding it can lead you to dumb

I chose a team at #4 on the stat you don't understand to show you that, while the team is #4, not only did they score less TD's than we did in the RZ, they got TO the RZ only .5 times more PER GAME, than we did AND didnt make the playoffs. There are, absolutely, teams with higher precentages than we had who ALSO had higher #trips to the RZ and got, therefore, more TD's. I'd bet there aren't 17 of them....

So, try this again, think it through slooooooowly.

Anyone else not able to grasp this?

Ark, if you make him try think too hard he might hurt himself.


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[Drink IRON City]

ENTERTAINMENT That's what it's all about.........entertainment !!!!!!!!





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