Eli Harold or Kevin Johnson?

[Joey Porters Taint]

I think the Bengals might take Harold before the steelers can. Also think he is picked before Dupree but nevertheless I would pick Harold over Johnson. You?

 

[steelerscotty]

Id take Johnson but only because we are weaker at corner. I'd bet real money Dupree is gone before Harold. Wouldn't surprise me if Dupree is top 15 and Harold isnt drafted till 2nd round.

 

[slashsteel]

KJ is from the smaller school right?

I think he might be rated higher on the Steelers board regardless.

as bad as the Steelers are at corner they need to get pressure on the QB and I think this draft is deeper at CB than OLB.... so I take Harold.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

Harold. The draft IS deeper at CB than OLB and the supposed second tier OLBs will be gone before our pick in the second round. If Cincy takes Harold before he gets to us, wouldn't be surprised to see them go with Orchard.

 

[Tibs]

Harold. The draft IS deeper at CB than OLB and the supposed second tier OLBs will be gone before our pick in the second round. If Cincy takes Harold before he gets to us, wouldn't be surprised to see them go with Orchard.

Agreed, I'm afraid all the top edge rushers will be gone by rnd 2 including Diggy, Orchard, probably even guys like Danelle Hunter. So I think first round is where you'd want to nab one...as there should be a few serviceable CB/S's sitting there in round two.

 

[Superman]

if we take Johnson in Round 1 and then Lorenzo Mauldin in Round 2, I'd not complain.
it'd be addressing needs, but if those are the best two on the board per our brilliant FO, then so be it.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

For those interested in what PFF has to say, they've put together a "Buyer Beware" list of the CBs outlining "issues" that they believe some of the top rated CBs have. Johnson makes the list:

Johnson is also regarded as a first-round draft pick by many, but in a similar way to Justin Hardy at wide receiver he’s someone that neither myself nor Sam see the hype with. He does have great balance which stops him from being beaten immediately off the line where so much damage can be done, but there are too many question marks in the rest of his game.

He doesn’t possess great top-level speed on the field. This will lead to him losing plenty of one-on-one battles with NFL receivers and at times it looked like he was deliberately playing off to protect his speed. The need to jump up from there and attack under routes led to him being beaten on double moves on more than one occasion. (So, what's not to like? That's a staple of our defense ... lol) Like Waynes, he too can be a bit of a sloppy tackler at times, tilting his head down and trying to tackle blind far too often which led to 10 misses last season.

Signature Stat: Missed a tackle once every 5.1 attempted, tied for the ninth-worst of all draft-eligible cornerbacks in this class.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/04/17/cff-overview-cb-buyer-beware/

Personal opinion: we see a whole bunch of these types of articles the closer we get to the draft every year. None of these kids are perfect coming out of college. The trick is finding the one that will eventually grow/learn and be perfect for your team.

Still think the first pick is an Edge guy though.

 

[Wingman]

I think there are lots of guys with holes in their games. The two things I think are most important are height and speed. It does not matter how fast a guy can change direction or turn and run if the wide out just runs away from him. For years that was what Ike brought to the table. He was not an interception machine but he was great at staying with his man and making sure he did not catch the ball. I really do not care that much about stats in college as some do as many of the players will not be in the nfl and the level of talent will be much greater. In most cases there is not nearly as much home cooking in the nfl as the college ranks.

So that great cover guy in college might get to the nfl and find out he has a drum sewn into his uniform cause he is getting beat all the time.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

Well Johnson has the height. But speed may be an issue if you're looking for that 4.3 - 4.4 speed (he posted a 4.5 at the combine).

 

[SteelBuckeye]

The best CB in the game, Revis, is not a speed merchant either, I prefer technique and good speed over speed guys that can't cover.

Yep, and many of the so called experts have questioned both in regards to Johnson's ability at the NFL level. Now, I'm not saying that just because they have concerns it means he won't be a good CB, just relaying the information.

 

[Steel Ballin]

The best CB in the game, Revis, is not a speed merchant either, I prefer technique and good speed over speed guys that can't cover.

Uuuuh,...Revis ran a 4.38 at the combine.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

Uuuuh,...Revis ran a 4.38 at the combine.

I think he was talking about a perceived loss of speed by Revis over the last few years.

 

[steelhurt]

I'd be ok with Kevin Johnson at #22 but no way Harold gets picked before Bud Dupree. I hope like hell Bud is there at #22 because that's got to be the pick if he's there but I just don't see him being there.

 

[SteelChip]

I haven't read anything really great about Johnson yet and the little film I've seen looks like he's a little skidish about tackling and violent contact. From what I have read so far, our best hopes for corner may be in the 3rd or 4th rounds. I know it's all speculation but we may be better to address OLB than a stretch pick like Johnson at CB.

The only thing that bothers me is that TMC likes him and I have always respected his opinion, I guess only time will tell.

http://www.Invalid Link - Check SN Home Page/2015/04/pff-not-high-on-wake-forest-cb-kevin-johnson/

 

[Tibs]

From what I have read so far, our best hopes for corner may be in the 3rd or 4th rounds.

That's what I'm seeing as well, that maybe a guy like Alex Carter or Eric Rowe may be sitting there in the 3rd... What's a bit unnerving about CB's is the Steelers tendency to pick lesser-known guys, guys they identify based on lord-knows-what and think Coach Lake can turn them into serviceable corners. I mean who in the world had even heard of the Richardson kid before the draft last year? So we may see some corners drafted that are not even on the radar at this point. They may have eliminated some of the top tier guys because of certain holes in their game (lack of tackling skills may be one of them...). I would LOVE to be a fly on the wall when Lake, Butler and the scouts put together their defensive back board. There may be some players listed at S that they're projected as CB, and vice versa. But most critically, how does the top of that board look like? Do they think as highly of Waynes, Peters and Johnson as the draft pundits? Are there some names on there that are currently projected rounds 3-5? Ahhh, the suspense...

 

[slashsteel]

With Revis that perception he lost speed might hold weight but perhaps not a lot of weight. Not like he has been retimed since his injury and we know some injuries take a little longer to recover from than others. And his play seems to be barely effected maybe his INT total if we look closely? But I am willing to bet he is still a 4.4 guy. And there is still his instincts and experience....,.....

With KJ as mentioned already he has those smaller school concerns

and his tackling question marks don't really fit the Steelers what they want with their corners with being sound against the run.

Definitely not my want in 1. And I am hoping the Steelers feel the same.

this is the year common sense would tell us the Steelers need to draft two corners, two more than any other position.

With a deep draft **** pick them 2 and 3 if they like and get that OLBer that value will disappear quickly IMO in this draft.

 

[Tibs]

Agreed Slash, it seems their target at 22 should be any of the top edge rushers that may drop - Gregory or Dupree (though I doubt either will), if not then move onto the next best OLB/DE however they may have them ranked - Harold, Orchard, Odighizuwa, Hunter....lock up that position, then move onto the defensive backs.... Now, all that will screw that up is some major talent drop at another position, see DeCastro, David. Danny Shelton comes to mind...

 

[slashsteel]

Agreed Slash, it seems their target at 22 should be any of the top edge rushers that may drop - Gregory or Dupree (though I doubt either will), if not then move onto the next best OLB/DE however they may have them ranked - Harold, Orchard, Odighizuwa, Hunter....lock up that position, then move onto the defensive backs.... Now, all that will screw that up is some major talent drop at another position, see DeCastro, David. Danny Shelton comes to mind...

yeah as long as that major talent isn't in the Jarvis mold of speed concerns /which doesn't look the case this year at OLBer

seems that it is more character concerns

like DGB and Gregory...Peters..... a hard decision if one or more are sitting there come 22.

Out of the three I think Gregory is the least concern but who knows...

2 weeks I can't wait !

 

[Tibs]

If Gregory or Dupree are not there, Owa Odighizuwa is my guy. I'd take him over Orchard, Harold, Hunter, Flowers et al. I love how strong and relentless he is, like a lion pouncing on prey. The ticker for me was him running a 4.56 40, that's all I needed to see to convince me he can play LOLB in our system. I consider him a plug & play guy from the get go, and there aren't too many guys like that.

 

[Wingman]

Here is a list of guys from TMCs evals that include the faster guys. Lots of them are projected in the later rounds.

Byron Jones of Connecticut may be the most intriguing cornerback in this draft class. He has elite attributes across the board. He is 6005, 199 pounds. At his pro day, his forty times were in the 4.36-4.45 range while adding 18 reps on the bench. At the combine, he had a vertical jump of 44 ½” while adding a broad jump of 12’03”, both outstanding numbers. He also showed elite change of direction skills. Jones is a physical player against the run and is more than willing to come forward and make plays. He is a solid tackling cornerback that is more than willing to take on blockers, shed, and move to the football. He shows the ability to play a variety of coverages. While Jones states he prefers to play press-man coverage, he is also strong in off-man and zone coverages, showing the ability to flip his hips and run with most receivers. He also shows the ability to click-and-close on shorter routes, delivering solid hits when he arrives. He has nice ball skills and good hands. If not for a shoulder injury that sidelined Jones, he could have potentially climbed to the top of this draft class. All the tools are there for Jones to become an elite NFL cornerback.

Ronald Darby of Florida State may be a stretch to fit the mold of what the Steelers desire at cornerback. He has the size at 5105, 193 pounds and shows elite speed running a 4.38 forty. He is an excellent leaper with solid change of direction. Where Darby does not fit is he is more of a pure cover cornerback that is not strong in run support. He does not show great upper body power and does not play with a physical nature. While Darby will get involved and make the tackle when he has to do so, he is more than willing to allow other players to do the heavy lifting. Where Darby excels is in pass coverage. He has the ability to run with any wide receiver. He shows the ability to turn quickly, maintain body position and stack the receiver, and run with him down the field maintaining that position. He has excellent ball skills and good hands. He has the ability to turn the ball over when challenged and does a nice job of fighting for the ball in the air. He can play a variety of coverages but appears to be at his best in man coverages. He does not completely fit the mold of what the Steelers generally covet at cornerback, but if the Steelers fail to meet needs prior to the second or third round, Darby’s value could be too great to pass.

Josh Shaw of Southern Cal, like Alex Carter, is holding firm in the third round but his film really supports a later grade. Shaw is 6004, 201 pounds and ran a 4.44 forty. He had 26 reps on the bench, which is elite for a cornerback. He shows excellent leaping ability and solid change of direction. He has the potential to play safety as well and spent a lot of time in the role of a safety. He does have some off-the-field concerns after being suspended from the team. Shaw had an altercation with his girlfriend where he jumped from a second-story balcony and sprained both ankles. Shaw then fabricated a story, stating he saved a drowning relative, and he was lauded as a hero. Once the facts came out, Shaw was suspended and later reinstated to his team. Prior to this incident, Shaw was considered a person of high character. The history of this incident would be something the Steelers would certainly have to investigate and they have shown a tendency to avoid players with this type of background completely. On the field, Shaw is a solid tackling defensive back. He is not a player that flashes in with the big hit, but he is very good at wrapping up the runner and dragging him to the ground. He does not miss a lot of tackles and is solid as a last line of defense. He is also willing to challenge blockers. He played a lot of zone coverages while at USC, specifically off zone coverages. He is solid at closing on the receiver and does an excellent job of limiting the gain after the catch. As a senior, he played more cornerback, although his time was shortened due to the suspension. He did show some ability in press coverage and uses his hands well. He can lose positioning and get placed in the trail position, but works to challenge the receiver through the route. He has some ball skills but is often not in a position to challenge and this would be where he needs the most work, tightening his coverage prior to the arrival of the football. Shaw has the raw talent and athleticism to intrigue teams that are willing to coach him up.

Craig Mager of Texas State is a small school cornerback and if he had attended a school like Texas instead of Texas State, he would be higher on draft boards. Mager is 5114, 201 pounds and ran a 4.44 forty with strong change of direction skills. He shows solid power and elite leaping ability. Mager is a willing tackler and is not afraid to get into the legs of bigger runners, wrapping them up and dragging them to the ground. He will take on blockers and force runners to turn back inside. He has quick feet and will sit in his backpedal in off coverages, flipping his hips to turn and run with receivers on deeper routes. He shows solid ability in man coverage, uses his hands well to direct receivers and also uses the sideline as an extra defender. He can run with most receivers and will challenge the football in the air. Mager will need to continue to refine his game and work to elevate his play to compete at the next level, but he could potentially give minutes as a slot cover corner early in his career. Mager also has skills as a punt returner.

Darryl Roberts of Marshall may be the biggest sleeper in this draft. He is 5110, 187 pounds and ran a blistering 4.38 forty at his pro day. He shows excellent change of direction skills, solid power for a cornerback with 23 reps on the bench, and is simply a well put together cornerback. Roberts is not a guy that attacks the run game and is not physical at the point of attack. He is more than willing to allow his teammates to handle the heavy lifting in this area. He is also not a player that spent a lot of time playing zone coverages, so his ability to handle that aspect of the game is still unknown. What he does well is play press man coverage. He is almost always assigned the best receiver and shows the ability to get a hand on the receiver, although not a great jam, and turn to run with the receiver through the route. He does not show great ball skills and can allow some receptions, but they are often contested and fit into tight windows. He does show the ability to open and run with receivers through a variety of routes, maintaining tight coverage, and challenging them snap after snap. Roberts is considered a late round pick and his blend of man coverage and overall athletic attributes is certainly something a coach can build upon

I would suggest that there are guys that will be available at the corner position that might be better fits for the Steelers. Speed and height are hard to teach and it is great if you can cover but you can't cover from 10 yards behind.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

If Gregory or Dupree are not there, Owa Odighizuwa is my guy. I'd take him over Orchard, Harold, Hunter, Flowers et al. I love how strong and relentless he is, like a lion pouncing on prey. The ticker for me was him running a 4.56 40, that's all I needed to see to convince me he can play LOLB in our system. I consider him a plug & play guy from the get go, and there aren't too many guys like that.

I'd LOVE Diggy over Harold, but I keep coming back to those hip surgeries. I won't be one complaining if Diggy is the route they take. However, I'd be one hoping and praying that somewhere soon he's not retiring because of arthritic hips.

 

[Tibs]

I'd LOVE Diggy over Harold, but I keep coming back to those hip surgeries. I won't be one complaining if Diggy is the route they take. However, I'd be one hoping and praying that somewhere soon he's not retiring because of arthritic hips.

Agreed SteelBuckeye. Here is some info on that end:

Diggy talking about how the hip checked out with doc's, MRI, etc at the combine... cue to around 4:00



Lineman Owamagbe Odighizuwa returns from injury strong
http://dailybruin.com/2014/04/14/lineman-owamagbe-odighizuwa-returns-from-injury-strong/

Physically, Odighizuwa said he’s better than he was even before his injury. After his surgery, he didn’t lose a pound and kept his muscle mass, allowing him to spend his time off getting better, not just getting back to what he was.

“For me, my motto was, ‘Get back like I never left,’” Odighizuwa said. “I didn’t want to take a step backwards on the field.”

Accomplishing that meant working every day with trainers and physical therapists, meeting frequently with coaches – and just a little bit of motivation. Odighizuwa said he drew inspiration from watching NFL players, such as Adrian Peterson and Percy Harvin, who returned from major injuries. But a more familiar name provided the model that Odighizuwa needed.

“I always think of a guy like (former UCLA defensive end) Datone (Jones) who had a similar situation,” Odighizuwa said of his former teammate, who battled back from a similar injury and was drafted last year.

“Just to see it all pay off for him in his last year of eligibility and him to play at a high level, it just it was a testament of his hard work and I was right there with him. He worked super hard and everything paid off for him. So for me, I knew that if I wanted to be there, that I need to do the same exact thing.”

UCLA’s Owamagbe Odighizuwa is impressive on the football field, but curious off it too
http://www.dailynews.com/sports/201...-on-the-football-field-but-curious-off-it-too

Take one look at Owamagbe Odighizuwa’s 6-foot-3 frame, and it’s difficult to imagine him being anything other than a football player.

Even his UCLA teammates are impressed. Back during training camp in August, sophomore defensive lineman Eddie Vanderdoes was asked what it was like to finally play alongside Odighizuwa, who had sat out the entire 2013 season recovering from hip surgeries. He gave a small sigh, then started down a path of childlike wonder.

“There are people, and then there’s Owa. You’ve got humans, and then there’s Owa.” said Vanderdoes, who himself is listed at 6-foot-3, 305 pounds. “You look at him and he’s like a physical specimen. He’s built. He’s 275 pounds of solid muscle. He runs like a DB. He’s just — I don’t know. I can’t explain it. He’s just a monster.”

 

[antdrewjosh]

If we reach for any OLB after the top guys i hope its Diggy. I think right out the gate he will be excellent vs the run. he can learn from Porter and Harrison on how to rush.

If we reach on any CB i hope its the kid from Connecticut Byron Jones. Cant teach his athleticism.

this is at 22. and provided the top guys are gone at their respective positions. Can also see them going OL or WR if the value is too much too pass on.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

Thanks Tibs. Great post. My takeaways from the video and articles:

1. The first thing that struck me is that he's a very well spoken young man - a trait that can be found in most Steelers players
2. Pleased to hear that according to Diggy, the docs at the combine said the hips checked out as far as strength and range of movement
3. His teammates speak of him with the same type of awe that Steelers players reserve for Deebo
4. and last but not least ... he has a Joey Porter shaped head .. lol

Maybe he's the pick. If so, I wouldn't be upset. Now, from the outside looking in, as we all are, given the Steelers history of liking to take younger players (juniors, redshirt sophomores), do you think they are considering Diggy, who is 23, in the first? Last time they took a player that old was ..... JJ. Although Diggy's Sparq score blows Jarvis' out of the water.

 

[Tibs]

1. The first thing that struck me is that he's a very well spoken young man - a trait that can be found in most Steelers players

From that UCLA article, Diggy's nothing short of a brainiac

But know this about Odighizuwa: Off the field, he’s far from what you might expect in a top collegiate defensive end.

For instance, his field of study. Odighizuwa already walked across the stage in his UCLA commencement this past June — an experience he called “surreal” — and recently finished his last round of undergraduate classes. A few months from now, he’ll look in the mail and find his B.A. in philosophy. He says he might be the first Bruin football player to have ever picked the major.

“I never put my eggs in one basket,” Odighizuwa says. “My number one goal — it still is — is to pursue the NFL. But I knew that at the end of the day, I like to put my eggs in multiple baskets. That’s kind of why I majored in philosophy. I wanted to make sure that if I leave, I wanted to have a degree so that not only can I do football, but that I can connect and network with other people.”

Often the only athlete in his upper-division classes, he decided on his major as a sophomore, when he took a course on 20th-century German philosophers. Odighizuwa can’t recall the exact name of the class, but was captivated by the diversity of the ideas the curriculum branched into, from psychology to science.

His favorite philosopher is Immanuel Kant. Eventually, he took another course focused on Kant’s “Critique of Pure Reason.”

Now, from the outside looking in, as we all are, given the Steelers history of liking to take younger players (juniors, redshirt sophomores), do you think they are considering Diggy, who is 23, in the first?

That my friend is the million dollar question, will Colbert draft a non-junior in the first round? He does so infrequently...

Now that I'm convinced he's the best pick for us at #22 (without some top edge rusher falling), I'm 100% sure the Steelers will go a different direction.