Defensive decisions. 2009-2015

[Coach]

Our defense is at a low point. Its really a three way process.


Draft, develop, and than retain in free agency. Let’s go 6 years back. 2009-2015.



Draft:



The draft has been too hit or miss for the defense. To be fair, you can say that for most if not all teams. Heyward is a home run. Woridls and Lewis were decent. Hood was a bad pick. Shazier looks to be a good pick, but you have to woder if he’s injury prone. The rest of the picks in rounds 3 to 4 have not produced a starter. And we didn’t find any Keisel’s, Taylor’s or Gays later in the draft for the defense.





Developing:



This is on the coaches. J Jones and S Thomas. Have they been coached up enough to play and make an impact? Heyward developed for sure, but it took a while for him to unseat Hood. Tuitt had 13 tackles and a sack. A rather quiet rookie year, but I expect better and it’s too early to judge him. Shazier looked good until he got hurt.




Retain:



Keenan Lewis is a good NFL player. If we had him, he would be a huge upgrade over Allen. You could say we are one good DB away from winning a playoff game and Lewis could have been him.



Brice MaCain was good last year. Without him, pressure will be on two rookie corners play. I think this is a very risky strategy.



Jason Worilds left the Steelers high and dry. Had the Steelers let him walk they have franchise tag money to spend elsewhere ( $9,000,000.00+ , and a high compensatory pick in a future draft.




2015 draft. The Steelers went heavy on defense and for a change addressed their needs early in the draft, and went back to the same positions, which I am a fan of when your need is great. I think Dupree, And Grant can become good players in the defense. Golson? We’ll see. I have some doubts. It would be nice to get a late round find in Walton, Chickillo or Holliman.

 

[stillwright]

Or the over all talent Lewis is playing with has made him play better in NO. Here he might just be run out of the Burgh again by all the fans. Weird. Very few wanted to retain him but now....

 

[Stryker]

Since your assessment started in 2009, McClendon is a starter and he's undrafted from 2009. McCullers is a 6th rounder from last year, and will probably supplant him to start. Perhaps our DL is a strength in developing players now?

 

[Drink IRON City]

Until we see Sharknado play, un injured, we can't rule him out, good or bad. Good nwrite up coach.



Salute the nation

 

[Coach]

Since your assessment started in 2009, McClendon is a starter and he's undrafted from 2009. McCullers is a 6th rounder from last year, and will probably supplant him to start. Perhaps our DL is a strength in developing players now?

I see your point. You could say he was a positive find. I think McClendon is rather average as a starting NT, and several notches below the standard that Hampton and Steed set.

Last season it took too long to get Tuitt more snaps. When you have a zero in front of him in Thomas, why not give the young rookie with better upside a shot? Ask Tomlin and LeBeuau. And speaking of LeBeau, was he passed his best, or was he the master of smoke and mirrors coordinating a defense that had its share of holes? We’ll see this season.

This year Tomlin will have no choice but to play the younger and untested more often. If he can integrate play making younger players in the pass rush and secondary, he'll have earned my respect as a coach who can re-build and win, instead of the coach who inherited a super bowl team loaded with talent from the previous regime and won with them, then became mediocre as the key Cowher players aged or retired.

 

[SteelerSask2]

I think lost their drafting edge, which was there were few 3-4 teams. And now with the rule changes it is harder and harder to play traditional 3-4 anyways. They typically have drafted from the middle third and down and they have reached on some players there based on athleticism (Hood) and production (Jarvis Jones). You can't miss first round picks without paying a price. Plus there was some type of schism between Tomlin and Lebeau in terms of applying pressure. I'm hoping it was Lebeau who was backing off, but I find that very hard to believe.

 

[Vader]

I think lost their drafting edge, which was there were few 3-4 teams. And now with the rule changes it is harder and harder to play traditional 3-4 anyways. They typically have drafted from the middle third and down and they have reached on some players there based on athleticism (Hood) and production (Jarvis Jones). You can't miss first round picks without paying a price. Plus there was some type of schism between Tomlin and Lebeau in terms of applying pressure. I'm hoping it was Lebeau who was backing off, but I find that very hard to believe.

LeBeau wasn't backing off. He didn't have the horses. He had Jones, Timmons, Shazier/Spence/Williams, and Worilds. None of those guys are pass rush specialists. Then you have a DL with Heyward (who still struggles at times like when he was manhandled in the clown games), McClendon (who is more of a up the field NG), and a rookie in Tuitt and a nobody in Thomas.

Then on top of all of that you had a secondary that couldn't cover anyone. What was LeBeau to do? Rush more and leave his secondary exposed? I think people will see this year that LeBeau wasn't the issue. Tombert changed the way the Steelers normally drafted. They moved to lighter, faster LBs trying to stop the pass to the TEs and RBs. The problem is that these LBs aren't pass rushers and aren't run stoppers. And it's really hard for any LB to stay with a RB or TE no matter how fast or light they are. It was a huge mistake because now they can't stop anything. They still give up passes to the RBs and TEs along with not being able to stop the run or get to the passer. It makes no sense to me.

 

[SteelerSask2]

I don't disagree Vader. Personally with their offense last year, I'd have brought the pressure heavy and non stop. The only way you could win was with turnovers. No pressure, no turnovers. Bring more than are blocking. Rathe rgive up big plays for TDs and get the ball back quick in our hands than allow the long drives.

 

[Wingman]

Our defense is at a low point. Its really a three way process.


Draft, develop, and than retain in free agency. Let’s go 6 years back. 2009-2015.
Draft:
The draft has been too hit or miss for the defense. To be fair, you can say that for most if not all teams. Heyward is a home run. Woridls and Lewis were decent. Hood was a bad pick. Shazier looks to be a good pick, but you have to woder if he’s injury prone. The rest of the picks in rounds 3 to 4 have not produced a starter. And we didn’t find any Keisel’s, Taylor’s or Gays later in the draft for the defense.
Developing:
This is on the coaches. J Jones and S Thomas. Have they been coached up enough to play and make an impact? Heyward developed for sure, but it took a while for him to unseat Hood. Tuitt had 13 tackles and a sack. A rather quiet rookie year, but I expect better and it’s too early to judge him. Shazier looked good until he got hurt.
Retain:
Keenan Lewis is a good NFL player. If we had him, he would be a huge upgrade over Allen. You could say we are one good DB away from winning a playoff game and Lewis could have been him.
Brice MaCain was good last year. Without him, pressure will be on two rookie corners play. I think this is a very risky strategy.
Jason Worilds left the Steelers high and dry. Had the Steelers let him walk they have franchise tag money to spend elsewhere ( $9,000,000.00+ , and a high compensatory pick in a future draft.
2015 draft. The Steelers went heavy on defense and for a change addressed their needs early in the draft, and went back to the same positions, which I am a fan of when your need is great. I think Dupree, And Grant can become good players in the defense. Golson? We’ll see. I have some doubts. It would be nice to get a late round find in Walton, Chickillo or Holliman.

The strongest disagreement I have is with Heyward being a home run.....not. He has become a good player. He is nowhere near the force that Aaron Smith was if he was he would be a home run. Big difference between the two. Remember the season Hampton was out and replaced by Hoke, the line still played well because of Smith. The Team was a solid run stopper with Smith and because of his ability the pass rush was very effective. Heyward may become the equivalent of Kiesel but will not compare to Smith. Heyward was also a first round pick and was unable to unseat hood.

Jones looks like a bust so far. Tuitt looks like he will be a good player as well as McCullers. McClendon looks like a poor mans Chris Hoke he just is not the force he needs to be. Dupree looks like the real deal as does Chickilo and they should both develop into real players when given the benefit of decent coaching. The new batch of defensive backs at least can catch and that all by itself should give the other teams quarterbacks some second thoughts. If they can just catch the bad passes and the missed communication throws the team will be much better. Last year they as a group could not cover very well nor could they catch the exception was Willie Gay. There are also some players that were on the practice squad that could develop into players for the team. You are right that drafts have been bad for a while but they seem to be looking better now. A few offensive players have been added to the team and that should help the d as well.

 

[Vader]

I don't disagree Vader. Personally with their offense last year, I'd have brought the pressure heavy and non stop. The only way you could win was with turnovers. No pressure, no turnovers. Bring more than are blocking. Rathe rgive up big plays for TDs and get the ball back quick in our hands than allow the long drives.

The stats I saw said that LeBeau blitzed a lot. I just don't think it's a coaching issue. I think it's a player issue.

 

[SteelerSask2]

Possibly. I saw a lot of cross buck blitzes. I'm talking 6-7 and sometimes 8 at the LOS with only two guys with their hand in the ground creating blocking uncertainty. Just didn't see that.

 

[slashsteel]

I think Bud will be a solid run stuffing OLBer, a ok pass rusher.
At SS a big question mark, and at one CB position the same.

Only thing is at SS and OLB they have experience in case there is growing pains from some younger prospects.

Not so much at CB if Cortez ***** the can.

Come final cuts it would be in the Steelers best interests IMO to bring in one more corner..........................

 

[SteelerSask2]

Troy is in my top 5 all time. Absolute respect for the guy on and off of the field. But when a instinctual/ anticipatory player loses his quickness it is almost worse because he forces his team mates into bad positions. I think Mitchell will be significantly better this year playing with someone where he knows where he will be. Hopefully that will be Thomas because you always want the young guy with the upside to emerge, but either way the safety spot should be better.

 

[Coach]

The strongest disagreement I have is with Heyward being a home run.....not. He has become a good player. He is nowhere near the force that Aaron Smith was if he was he would be a home run. Big difference between the two. Remember the season Hampton was out and replaced by Hoke, the line still played well because of Smith. The Team was a solid run stopper with Smith and because of his ability the pass rush was very effective. Heyward may become the equivalent of Kiesel but will not compare to Smith. Heyward was also a first round pick and was unable to unseat hood.

Jones looks like a bust so far. Tuitt looks like he will be a good player as well as McCullers. McClendon looks like a poor mans Chris Hoke he just is not the force he needs to be. Dupree looks like the real deal as does Chickilo and they should both develop into real players when given the benefit of decent coaching. The new batch of defensive backs at least can catch and that all by itself should give the other teams quarterbacks some second thoughts. If they can just catch the bad passes and the missed communication throws the team will be much better. Last year they as a group could not cover very well nor could they catch the exception was Willie Gay. There are also some players that were on the practice squad that could develop into players for the team. You are right that drafts have been bad for a while but they seem to be looking better now. A few offensive players have been added to the team and that should help the d as well.

Wingman,

I think Heyward is our best 3-4 DE since Aaron Smith. He only needs to do it one more time to prove the last two years were not a fluke.

Last season he had 55 tackles, 4 passes defended and 7.5 sacks. All of these numbers are elite for a 3-4 end.

I would say Hewyard is a slightly better pass rusher in comparison to Smith, but not quite as good vs. the run or holding his gap.

When I say home run of a pick, keep in mind Heyward was a very late 1st round pick. We got amazing value and need.

When Iron head's boy hits free agency, it will take a small mint to re-sign him. Best guess, he gets 9-11 million a year. And I think he's worth that amount relative to what his peers are paid. See the below link.


http://overthecap.com/position/3-4-defensive-end/

 

[SteelerSask2]

Funny how this team has barely competed well the last two to three years, seem talent starved and yet they are going to make some very hard cap decisions in the next few years.

 

[Steelerfan]

Funny how this team has barely competed well the last two to three years, seem talent starved and yet they are going to make some very hard cap decisions in the next few years.

Quite a testament to Tombert and company. {sarcasm}

 

[SteelerAl]

Dupree looks like the real deal as does Chickilo and they should both develop into real players when given the benefit of decent coaching.

A 6th round pick who hasn't even been through a real practice yet looks "like the real deal"???? I really don't know what some of you guys are smoking...

 

[Coach]

Athletically speaking, you can say both are the real deal. Wing is correct. On the field in the NFL, its wait and see, so Al is correct.

I think Chickillo played the wrong position for a bad defensive coordinator at the University of Miami. He’s a better fit as a 3-4 OLB, who should be strong vs. the run, and perhaps a decent pass rusher. The guy is intense with a motor.

Chickillo had an impressive workout among the DL players at the combine. A 3 cone of 7.17 and 20 yard shuttle of 4.25 are outstanding for a DL player, and highlight his change of direction and quickness. Chickillo wisely dropped 10 pounds to play OLB, so these numbers are even better now.


Durpee’s time of 4.47 in the shuttle and 7.49 in the 3 cone drill is decent, but not quite as great.

In Dupree’s case he ran a 4.56 fourty, and jumped 42”. Very impressive




http://www.steelers.com/videos/vide...hickillo/1e41b425-cf77-4979-a5e7-af0d17600c3b

 

[Wingman]

A 6th round pick who hasn't even been through a real practice yet looks "like the real deal"???? I really don't know what some of you guys are smoking...

Size and athleticism vs guys we have with no size or athleticism like Jarvis who is on his way to year 4 and done nothing to speak of. Potential is there for both of these guys and your right now there is only potential but these guys have size and athletic ability that looks like the real deal. That is why I said "looks Like" instead of is.

 

[Wingman]

Wingman,

I think Heyward is our best 3-4 DE since Aaron Smith. He only needs to do it one more time to prove the last two years were not a fluke.

Last season he had 55 tackles, 4 passes defended and 7.5 sacks. All of these numbers are elite for a 3-4 end.

I would say Hewyard is a slightly better pass rusher in comparison to Smith, but not quite as good vs. the run or holding his gap.

When I say home run of a pick, keep in mind Heyward was a very late 1st round pick. We got amazing value and need.

When Iron head's boy hits free agency, it will take a small mint to re-sign him. Best guess, he gets 9-11 million a year. And I think he's worth that amount relative to what his peers are paid. See the below link.


http://overthecap.com/position/3-4-defensive-end/

I agree with that but think Tuitt may surpass him. I am not sure I would say Heyward is a better pass rusher so much as he was used differently than Smith. Both played 3-4 end but I suspect that on a line with no pass rushers, Harrison was hurt and Woodley fat and then both were gone for a bit while Heyward was in his position. I am watching the way they play. I am also not knocking Heyward and think he was a good choice and is a good lineman.

 

[Vader]

I agree with that but think Tuitt may surpass him. I am not sure I would say Heyward is a better pass rusher so much as he was used differently than Smith. Both played 3-4 end but I suspect that on a line with no pass rushers, Harrison was hurt and Woodley fat and then both were gone for a bit while Heyward was in his position. I am watching the way they play. I am also not knocking Heyward and think he was a good choice and is a good lineman.

You're exactly right. Tomlin and Lebeau talked about the DL getting more penetration and being used differently. McClendon is a prime example of this. He may get more sacks than Hampton but he isn't in Hampton's league. Heyward is in the same boat. He's allowed to penetrate more because the LBs aren't getting pressure.

If you think about it, it's a vicious cycle:

Smaller fast LBs to cover TEs and RBs.
Quicker more penetrating DL to make up for the lack of QB pressure from the LBs.
All of a sudden you see a DL that can't stop the run but has more sacks than your LBs and LBs that can't rush the QB or stop the run but can cover a few swing passes. It's really dramatic how they've changed from a big powerful defense to a defense that is faster but can't stop anybody from doing much of anything.