Coach’s mid-term grades.

[Coach]

Just for reference, what does your bible site (PFF) rate Davis at the moment for safeties.

Also, try to paste correctly from one medium to the next. Black fonts works best on white contrast.


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Ike,

These are my grades. As such I'm not going to use a 3rd party opinion as part of my grading systems.

For whatever reason, this forum has issues with my copy and paste.

Davis just isn't making many plays. Is he assignment sound? Yes. Does he make impactful splash plays? Very few.

 

[Coach]

Oh bullshit on "better". Margins like that on that stat do not mean "better". It is, simply, not significant enough of a difference to make that distinction. Technically, higher, but not, necessarily, "better". This is why no one took your stupid assed bet, because you make distractions that arent.

You said that magnificent hang time, which might be better, but i haven't seen measures, would result in more fair catches. Ive demonstrated Wile has less FC on more punts.

You will notice that i, specifically, did not mention cost. This was purposefully done as i was discussing your dumbass conclusion as to "better".

If my punter kicks from the opponent's 45 and drops it inside the 20, and your punter punts from their own 45 and it ends up inside the 20, which is "better". Based on your stats analysis, your punter is "better". The problem is, the stat doesn't tell the whole story.

Who did you think was better in the pre-season? Please reply.

Why does Wile have better numbers in the NFL season?

You not telling the whole story, rather your hiding behind it. If you have details to add that are not made up, I'll read them. I just wish I had access to hang time as Wile is better based on what I have seen.

2.5 more per punt Net in Wile's favor
More punts inside the 20, once again Wile is better
We saw the difference in leg strength and hang time in the preseason. Wile was better once again
And did we forget to note that Wile is about 1 million dollars cheaper on the cap? Wile > Berry again.

 

[slashsteel]

Ike,

These are my grades. As such I'm not going to use a 3rd party opinion as part of my grading systems.

For whatever reason, this forum has issues with my copy and paste.

Davis just isn't making many plays. Is he assignment sound? Yes. Does he make impactful splash plays? Very few.

Just make sure you give credit to whomever you are um "borrowing" an opinion.

As if not it comes across as plagiarism.

 

[Coach]

those who don't watch games can only judge players based on stats....or what others have written about the player

Please do participate in the game day thread, you see lots of posters know what is going on. I play along, often suggesting things we miss out on, or saying when something good happens . Proof I watch the games.

 

[CoolieMan]

Please do participate in the game day thread, you see lots of posters know what is going on. I play along, often suggesting things we miss out on, or saying when something good happens . Proof I watch the games.

game day thread is just full of people bitching about how much the team sucks....until they pull out the win and then they shut up....

 

[ark steel]

Who did you think was better in the pre-season? Please reply.

I already showed you why it appeared Wile was doing better in preseason, at least, according to the stat you wanted to use. You ignored it. He didn't have one (or maybe he did have just one) punt from inside the opponent's territory in preseason. I assume he has this season, but I haven't gone to look at all 40 punts.

YOU said his hang time would result in more FC than Berry. Maybe it did in preseason, but we are playing (well, THEY are) real football now when it matters. He has more 3 more punts and 2 less FC's. That, specficially, disproves the point you were trying to make about the difference in hang time. I would point out, again, though, I don't think a 2 FC difference is significant enough to hang anyone's hat on.

I don't consider pre-season results to be big-boy football.

Why does Wile have better numbers in the NFL season?

Those stats don't tell the whole story as to "better". Those stats are so marginally "better" the idea that you are trying to hang your hat on it is ridiculous. Again, why no one would take your dumbass bet. You think 2.5 yards on a stat that isn't a complete story is "better:

You not telling the whole story, rather your hiding behind it. If you have details to add that are not made up, I'll read them.

It is laughable that you think I am not telling the whole story. I even noted, that I didn't look at all 40ish punts by each guy. You think those stats tell the whole story (they don't) and, worse, you think the difference in the stats is significant enough to form a conclusion (they do not appear that way to me). Maybe, just maybe, someone thinks 2.5 more yards per put and slightly more (what was it 2?) inside the 20 is significant. I doubt it, though.

I will, again, ask you a question. Punter A kicks from the opponent's 40 to the 10 yard line. No return. Punter B kicks from his own 40 to the opponent's 10 yard line. No return Punter A has a 30 yard punt and punter B has a 50 yard punt. Both have 100% of their punts inside the 20 and neither have a punt returned.

You'd think Punter B is better because you don't know where the punter kicked from.

I just wish I had access to hang time as Wile is better based on what I have seen.

He might very well have better hang time. Your theory that this would result in more FC and less return yards does make sense. It has failed, in this instance, as you can see that there are not more FC's. Wile even has less with more punts! In general, I would expect the hang time to produce more FC and if we had the HT for all punters, i think this would follow through.o

Your theory on the return yards, while seeming to follow logically, does not because it includes more than just what the punter does. What about what happens if you include when the guy does catch they ball. I will give you an exact instance you would have seen in the KC game, if you watched it. Berry puts a kick (short, I think), but perfectly on the sideline which should have voided any chance at a return. A steeler defender was RIGHT ******* THERE

 

[Ike Kelly]

Ike,

These are my grades. As such I'm not going to use a 3rd party opinion as part of my grading systems.

For whatever reason, this forum has issues with my copy and paste.

Davis just isn't making many plays. Is he assignment sound? Yes. Does he make impactful splash plays? Very few.

Fine they are your grades. You are entitled to them. But your conclusions are all over the place.

Davis isn’t making plays in your opinion. Yet you say his play is assignment sound. He’s one of the leaders in tackles behind the ILBs. Because he’s assignment sound. You won’t get opportunities for picks or PDs if you don’t have balls thrown your way. Which has been the case. Look at his thrown to/catch ratio. He’s not getting many QBs to challenging him because why....? He’s assignment sound.

On Tomlin, you grade him a B but state all the reasons why he shouldn’t be a B. He’s either a B or not, rating him through the play of his assistants isn’t grading Tomlin. It’s grading the Coaching staff. You say Butler is doing better, but previously said Tomlin had his hands all in the defense. So which is it? Your conclusions don’t fit even your own narratives.

I’ll pass on the punting, because....it’s a Punter. You want to peacock over a 5th round pick for a team probably not making the playoffs ....go ahead.


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[Coach]

Stats play a role as they are quantified. But if you just watch the games you get a pretty good feel for who is playing well.

I take it well all saw Berry last night. Mickey Mouse could have punted that one better. He's below average as a punter, and as I fan I want to replace those type players,

 

[Coach]

Stick to offense Coach, those assessments are accurate. You're not as schooled on D or ST for that matter. Berry started at a D but he's a solid B now.

Canaday, you want to know if your LS is doing their job? They don't **** up, and they don't let up blocked kicks. He's done neither. Mr Perfect who knocked out our drafted LS is an A+, because that is the grade for perfection.

Cope,

I saw a bad snap long snap last night. Our long snapper is hardly Mr. Perfect. I get it 99% of the time the long snapper doesn't matter. Our guy to me average and can add more to kick coverage.

 

[Coach]

Fine they are your grades. You are entitled to them. But your conclusions are all over the place.

Davis isn’t making plays in your opinion. Yet you say his play is assignment sound. He’s one of the leaders in tackles behind the ILBs. Because he’s assignment sound. You won’t get opportunities for picks or PDs if you don’t have balls thrown your way. Which has been the case. Look at his thrown to/catch ratio. He’s not getting many QBs to challenging him because why....? He’s assignment sound.

On Tomlin, you grade him a B but state all the reasons why he shouldn’t be a B. He’s either a B or not, rating him through the play of his assistants isn’t grading Tomlin. It’s grading the Coaching staff. You say Butler is doing better, but previously said Tomlin had his hands all in the defense. So which is it? Your conclusions don’t fit even your own narratives.

I’ll pass on the punting, because....it’s a Punter. You want to peacock over a 5th round pick for a team probably not making the playoffs ....go ahead.

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Ike,

As I said before please read and quote me correctly. I gave Tomlin a B- , not a B

B- for The Tomlin man. . He does not impress or understand football. He's reactive to mistakes. How about putting the players in positon to win sooner? His judgement on when to throw the red flag has been very poor, and he has clashed with officials and been fined. The slow start was due to guys not being ready to play. He's lucky the Steelers have some other good coaches around him ( Munchak, Fichtner ) and a good GM that has given him good players. The B- is due to the team record.

Tomlin has very good talent around him. The team is now 6-2-1. But the above points I made stand. He was foolish enough to stick with Todd Haley for years! Please tell me why?

I'm the type of fan who doesn't want the Steelers to settle for mediocrity, especially at the important spots. I'm not saying Tomlin is the worst coach in the NFL, he's average. If he was 6-2 in his last eight playoff games ,and made adjustments quicker, I'd be in his corner. But as you can see he's 3-6 in his nine playoff games. That is tough to tolerate.

But as we see he's still doesn't get it. Williams and Bostic should not be in coverage assignments. WTF. And why those 2 DL deployments on defense. Carolina, if they didn't fall way behind could have gashed us with the Run. Our ILB's made McCaffery look like an All Pro last night.

What Grade would you give Tomlin, I'm curious.

As for Davis, he's assignment sound because he says back, and closes on the ball once the pass is complete. ALL Safeties should have a lot of tackles Ike. If you want me to show you that Davis is below average in terms of total tackles relative to the other starting safeties I can show you this!. It doesn't matter, you reject basic facts often. Davis ball skills and man coverage skill are not very good. It was an easy night for the DB's as Carolina's OL could not deal with our pass rush.

You know I'm correct about the punter. No need to comment further there.

 

[ark steel]

I take it well all saw Berry last night. Mickey Mouse could have punted that one better. He's below average as a punter, and as I fan I want to replace those type players,

I don't know that anyone is arguing that Berry is a good punter.

I'm not sure anyone is even arguing that Wile is not better. Although I suppose I am since I don't think he is, or, at least, significantly so.

We are arguing is that the stat you use to "prove" Wile is better just doesn't do that.

For the pre-season decision, it came down to this: You have a guy who may or may not shank a punt for 20 yards on occasion, but when you do have to punt from inside your opponent's territory, you KNOW he can drop it inside the 20 or 10 without a touchback. You have another guy who only had one put from inside the opponents territory and have no idea what he is going to do with punts like that.

I Berry had, truly, lost us games last year, you ditch him. I don't think he did.

 

[Coach]

game day thread is just full of people bitching about how much the team sucks....until they pull out the win and then they shut up....

Its about a lot more than that. Why not join in? You'll see real time comments for those who watch the games. Some posters make good points.

 

[Stryker]

Cope,

I saw a bad snap long snap last night. Our long snapper is hardly Mr. Perfect. I get it 99% of the time the long snapper doesn't matter. Our guy to me average and can add more to kick coverage.

Which bad snap? The one that hit the ground, or the one that led to a missed kick?

I thought so...

 

[Stryker]

I don't know that anyone is arguing that Berry is a good punter.

I'm not sure anyone is even arguing that Wile is not better. Although I suppose I am since I don't think he is, or, at least, significantly so.

We are arguing is that the stat you use to "prove" Wile is better just doesn't do that.

For the pre-season decision, it came down to this: You have a guy who may or may not shank a punt for 20 yards on occasion, but when you do have to punt from inside your opponent's territory, you KNOW he can drop it inside the 20 or 10 without a touchback. You have another guy who only had one put from inside the opponents territory and have no idea what he is going to do with punts like that.

I Berry had, truly, lost us games last year, you ditch him. I don't think he did.

I think place holding was a large factor as well. The team was more comfortable with Berry doing it over Wile. Though I am a proponent of the backup QB doing it, to create trick plays out of it.

 

[Coach]

I don't know that anyone is arguing that Berry is a good punter.

I'm not sure anyone is even arguing that Wile is not better. Although I suppose I am since I don't think he is, or, at least, significantly so.

We are arguing is that the stat you use to "prove" Wile is better just doesn't do that.

For the pre-season decision, it came down to this: You have a guy who may or may not shank a punt for 20 yards on occasion, but when you do have to punt from inside your opponent's territory, you KNOW he can drop it inside the 20 or 10 without a touchback. You have another guy who only had one put from inside the opponents territory and have no idea what he is going to do with punts like that.

I Berry had, truly, lost us games last year, you ditch him. I don't think he did.

I listed downed punts inside the 20 to review. Berry has been a problem before in games, its masked by the team record. He barely made this team, and I think it was the wrong call by performance standards we are seeing during the season and the cap. If there is better way than our eyes and data to prove one player is better than another at the same positon, please show us.

 

[Ike Kelly]

Ike,

As I said before please read and quote me correctly. I gave Tomlin a B- , not a B



Tomlin has very good talent around him. The team is now 6-2-1. But the above points I made stand. He was foolish enough to stick with Todd Haley for years! Please tell me why?

I'm the type of fan who doesn't want the Steelers to settle for mediocrity, especially at the important spots. I'm not saying Tomlin is the worst coach in the NFL, he's average. If he was 6-2 in his last eight playoff games ,and made adjustments quicker, I'd be in his corner. But as you can see he's 3-6 in his nine playoff games. That is tough to tolerate.

But as we see he's still doesn't get it. Williams and Bostic should not be in coverage assignments. WTF. And why those 2 DL deployments on defense. Carolina, if they didn't fall way behind could have gashed us with the Run. Our ILB's made McCaffery look like an All Pro last night.

What Grade would you give Tomlin, I'm curious.

As for Davis, he's assignment sound because he says back, and closes on the ball once the pass is complete. ALL Safeties should have a lot of tackles Ike. If you want me to show you that Davis is below average in terms of total tackles relative to the other starting safeties I can show you this!. It doesn't matter, you reject basic facts often. Davis ball skills and man coverage skill are not very good. It was an easy night for the DB's as Carolina's OL could not deal with our pass rush.

You know I'm correct about the punter. No need to comment further there.

If I wanted to quote you directly I would denoted with quotation marks. I used B as generalization of my point. Which you proved again.

I'm not saying Tomlin is the worst coach in the NFL, he's average.

Average is defined as C. Yet you put him as “B-“. So your own argument doesn’t follow your narrative. You going to include the assist coaches, then you are not grading Tomlin, you are grading he staff, which he heads.

I myself give MT a solid B. The same I give for Cowher, who I stood behind from beginning to the end of his tenure. Chuck an A.

Todd Haley was brought in to keep Ben from being killed because of BA’s system. He was successful at that. He also made the offense successful with AB, Bell, Bryant, DeAngelo, Heath, helping Ben be prolific even more with production. He only problem being the success was only between the 20 yard lines. It was obvious that Ben and Haley disagreed on what to do in the red zone for a couple years.....which enabled the change.

I want to win the SB every year. Every.....Year. But I know it’s a long road and only the superlatives gets the chance. Unless you are cheaters like the folks from Foxboro.

Sean Davis.....you have an agenda with this player since he has been drafted. If he was to lead the league in Picks, PD’s FF, FR and tackles you would still bring a negative connotation about his play. You can’t be objective....your primary fault of evaluating players.

You can show a list of whatever stats you can interpret on your own. But if you don’t understand why the numbers are what they are, your opinion of them don’t hold water.

Again tell us where does PFF (your glory mag of stats) list Davis on the list of safeties?

And you are wrong about FS being leaders of tackles. It’s linebackers in the 3/4 that are the chieftains of tackles for that system.

Correct on a Punter? Sure Ace....you want to argue about a punter...knock yourself out.

Funny that you mention it.....since during the game thread with a 17 point lead.....your comment on the first punt of the night....was predictable. What about a Berry’s second one?

Yeah....


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