Chill … These Steelers trades are completely reasonable

[BLITZ]

I think tomlin drafted gay. And Clark was a free agent pickup

 

[Ron Burgundy]

I think tomlin drafted gay. And Clark was a free agent pickup

And Gay wasn't very good until he spent a year with the Cardinals and came back miraculously improved after getting away from Tomlin.

 

[Punxsutawney]

What makes him a proven commodity? He started two more games as a rookie than Sean Davis and their stats are pretty close to the same, the defense he played on was ranked 29th.
I'm not using a top 10 pick on a safety.

Fitzpatrick is a much better player than Davis. It's not even close.

For one, Fitzpatrick instincts, awareness and technique are far superior.

The defense still sucks because they have only 5-6 players that are worth a damn right now.

 

[chipped ham]

I never said Cowher was great at drafting DB's but Troy, Ike, Ryan Clark, and Willie Gay were all far better than anyone drafted since Tomlin has been here. And as mentioned, Colbert has been with Tomlin twice as long as he was with Cowher. The two best DB's we have now came from other teams.

Willie Gay was a Tomlin/Colbert pick; Ike Taylor was drafted by Cowher, but was super streaky under Cowher, and was benched, and his career was at a major crossroads. People forget that Taylor only really Started to blossom from ‘07 on. Sure, he was a contributor in ‘05, but was very up and down. Again, Tomlin’s picks have been garbage too, but Colbert and Cowher weren’t much better. It definitely helps when you have two cornerstone HOF’ers picked up in Ben and Troy (the most important player on your team, and the other player who helped revolutionize his position). That and their other bigger contributors were free agents with Kimo, Farrior, Clark (only for ‘06), etc. This is NOT to absolve any of the horse **** Tomlin has brought on this franchise with numerous busts drafted, and busted free agent signings. However, let’s not pretend like it was night and day difference, especially when it comes to defensive backs.

 

[BLITZ]

And Gay wasn't very good until he spent a year with the Cardinals and came back miraculously improved after getting away from Tomlin.

To your point 3 of 4 starters in our secondary came from other teams. Yet tomlin is a former DB coach

 

[chipped ham]

I never said Cowher was great at drafting DB's but Troy, Ike, Ryan Clark, and Willie Gay were all far better than anyone drafted since Tomlin has been here. And as mentioned, Colbert has been with Tomlin twice as long as he was with Cowher. The two best DB's we have now came from other teams.

They weren’t all that good at doing so either. Troy was really the only one, and although he was an absolute animal, and cornerstone player, there were many, many flameouts like the ones I mentioned.

 

[Punxsutawney]

From ‘00-‘07, which DBs that Colbert picked were any good(besides the obvious #43, who was a pretty “can’t miss” kind of player)? I remember the Hank Poteats, Ricardo Colcloughs, Lavar Glover’s, Bryant McFaddens, and the Anthony Smith’s that we’re slimed out. Outside of Troy P, Ike Taylor is the only other one who was worth a ****, and people do forget that Cowher benched his ***. Taylor really only started to blossom from 2007 on. Chris Hope had a year before cashing in elsewhere. Granted, the Tombert regime blows chunks too (Keenan Lewis the only one who was worth a **** that I can think, and he was like Hope in that he was here for a year before leaving), so they’re pretty damn even. Davis I think is serviceable but probably not much more than that; Cameron Sutton has made some plays in this young season, but he’s STILL an unknown.

Willie Williams, Darren Perry and Deshea Townsend were better than anything that Tomlin has drafted and developed.

Hell, even Chad Scott and Deon Figures were better. One could even argue that McFadden was better.

And it's not just DBs, look at the list of LBs and DLs Cowher produced compared to Tomlin.

There's not even a comparison.

 

[chipped ham]

Colbert was with Cowher for 7 years. He's been with Tomlin for 13 years. Almost double the time. He drafted better offensive and defensive players with Cowher in 7 as he has in 13 with Tomlin. How many Hood, Jones, Allen, Burns, Davis, Dupree, Golson, Thomas, Spence, C.Brown type players can an organization take?

Don’t fully disagree, but, at least offensively, it would be prudent to say that the other regime was “better.” Receivers we never miss a beat with, and don’t think it’s even really close, and had a great one/borderline HOF’er until Brown went all apeshit. Offensive line has probably been better this regime with guys like Pouncey, and DeCastro providing borderline HOF careers, Foster being the elder statesmen, and guy that nobody can unseat, and Villanueva having a solid few years (largely because of Mike M); outside of Faneca, the best olineman was a castoff from Detroit who turned his career around in Hartings; guys like Smith, Simmons, Starks had a couple OK years, but not much else.

Now, I am not disagreeing in any way with the overall sentiment that Tomlin/Colbert have had many, many misses. I just think that the two regimes are more comparable than most will want to admit, or care to admit. It gets lost Becauee of the time that has passed, and the fact that the two biggest players of our last 20 years (Troy/Ben) we’re apart of the previous regime. Both had their share of contributors and busts.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

The defense still sucks because they have only 5-6 players that are worth a damn right now.

Defense has 10 first round picks on it, so I'm told, and maybe 5 are decent (Heyward, Tuitt, Watt, Haden, and Fitz) and 2 of those 5 came from other teams (Haden and Fitz).

To your point 3 of 4 starters in our secondary came from other teams. Yet tomlin is a former DB coach

It's worth noting that in Tomlin's one year as the Vikings' DC before coming here they had the unusual distinction of having the league's best rushing defense and tied with the Bungles with the league's worst passing defense.

Don’t fully disagree, but, at least offensively, it would be prudent to say that the other regime was “better.” Receivers we never miss a beat with, and don’t think it’s even really close, and had a great one/borderline HOF’er until Brown went all apeshit. Offensive line has probably been better this regime with guys like Pouncey, and DeCastro providing borderline HOF careers, Foster being the elder statesmen, and guy that nobody can unseat, and Villanueva having a solid few years (largely because of Mike M); outside of Faneca, the best olineman was a castoff from Detroit who turned his career around in Hartings; guys like Smith, Simmons, Starks had a couple OK years, but not much else.

Now, I am not disagreeing in any way with the overall sentiment that Tomlin/Colbert have had many, many misses. I just think that the two regimes are more comparable than most will want to admit, or care to admit. It gets lost Becauee of the time that has passed, and the fact that the two biggest players of our last 20 years (Troy/Ben) we’re apart of the previous regime. Both had their share of contributors and busts.

Tomlin and Colbert seem to draft offense just fine. It's just curious how they have so many more misses than hits on defense.

 

[chipped ham]

Willie Williams, Darren Perry and Deshea Townsend were better than anything that Tomlin has drafted and developed.

Hell, even Chad Scott and Deon Figures were better. One could even argue that McFadden was better.

And it's not just DBs, look at the list of LBs and DLs Cowher produced compared to Tomlin.

There's not even a comparison.

All those guys were drafted before Colbert came into the mix. Just looking at this strictly as Cowher/Colbert and Tomlin/Colbert. With respect to both of their careers? Yeah, Cowher by a long shot. Then again, maybe it’s not so much the actual player being drafted, and more to do with the coach behind drafting the player.

 

[Lloyds legend]

Charred Scott.

 

[Superman]

in fairness, the only reason we had Keisel was because we were looking at Peezy and were "wtf is that?"

 

[chipped ham]

Defense has 10 first round picks on it, so I'm told, and maybe 5 are decent (Heyward, Tuitt, Watt, Haden, and Fitz) and 2 of those 5 came from other teams (Haden and Fitz).


It's worth noting that in Tomlin's one year as the Vikings' DC before coming here they had the unusual distinction of having the league's best rushing defense and tied with the Bungles with the league's worst passing defense.


Tomlin and Colbert seem to draft offense just fine. It's just curious how they have so many more misses than hits on defense.

It’s odd though with Tomlin in that he was a defensive backs coach, and defensive coordinator at his biggest stops, but was a wide receiver, a wide receivers coach, and offensive assistant in his much earlier years. The only thing this team has pegged down is picking up receivers. When I actually think about it, I have to feel like he has his hand in on that somehow. He’s not good at much else.

 

[Coryea]

I'm not sure how you could watch Fitzpatrick and Davis and even think they're in the same stratosphere as players.

I've seen him play one game, all I had to go on was stats. Point being for being so good, his stats don't show it and his teams defense didn't show it either.

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[Coryea]

in fairness, the only reason we had Keisel was because we were looking at Peezy and were "wtf is that?"

I'm unaware of this story? Porter was drafted in 1999, Brett in 02.

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[Coryea]

Also McFadden made a big time 1 on 1 pass break up of a TD vs Wayne and the Colts in 05

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