Bell may not be ready week one

[Coach]

Another way to look at Bell is this.

If Ben or AB go down, the next man up is a huge drop-off.

If Bell goes down, the next man up is almost as good and cheaply signed.

As such Bell's value to the team is not as great, and considering his injury issues and off the field stuff a risk for a large new contract. The position he plays tends to flame out quickly as well. And RB's are easy pick up replacements. Similar to Pouncey who was adequately replaced by a cheaply signed next man up.

While the above might anger some fans, this is a business. No way do I want Bell to be paid like a franchise back. Today a " tagged " back averages 11.8 million a year.

 

[Coach]

Good question. Denver and Seattle finished #1 and #2 overall in NFL Defense. They also were #1 and #2 in rush defense by a good margin.

Bell did not do well vs St Louis ranked 23rd in defense (19 rushes 62 yards 3.26 YPC ). He also had a sub par game vs Arizona, ranked 5th in defense ( 24 rushes 88 yards 3.67 yards per carry )

When healthy, Bell can be viewed as better overall, but not by a wide margin. You can also argue that Williams is a better goal line back, and offers more speed.

So you don't factor into the equation who was at QB in those games?

Ben threw 24 passes in the St Louis game. He was also out when Williams started, correct?

Question to you. Do you want Bell to get a 4 year deal that averages 11.8 million a year, or would you rather keep Williams or another player like him at 2 million a year? Essentially the difference is 10 million a year, and can be better spent at positions of need and Bell's a injruy risk, and an off the field risk.

 

[ark steel]

I wish the players union would push for a NBA type rule where a team can go over the salary cap to sign their own players who have 3 or more years with the team. Bird rights.

I'd like to see something more like a discount on the cap hit (same effect as your idea) for a player that has been on the team for a while, but three years is too short. That is less than the rookie contract. I'd rather there be some longevity with the team required. At least, at some point in the second contract and/or third contracts, say years 6 and 10. I don't know how much the discount would need to be to allow the team to remain more competitive in their ability to keep the player, though.

 

[antdrewjosh]

Good question. Denver and Seattle finished #1 and #2 overall in NFL Defense. They also were #1 and #2 in rush defense by a good margin.

Bell did not do well vs St Louis ranked 23rd in defense (19 rushes 62 yards 3.26 YPC ). He also had a sub par game vs Arizona, ranked 5th in defense ( 24 rushes 88 yards 3.67 yards per carry )

When healthy, Bell can be viewed as better overall, but not by a wide margin. You can also argue that Williams is a better goal line back, and offers more speed.



Ben threw 24 passes in the St Louis game. He was also out when Williams started, correct?

Question to you. Do you want Bell to get a 4 year deal that averages 11.8 million a year, or would you rather keep Williams or another player like him at 2 million a year? Essentially the difference is 10 million a year, and can be better spent at positions of need and Bell's a injruy risk, and an off the field risk.

And how did Williams do in those games. Dont remember

 

[ark steel]

Good question. Denver and Seattle finished #1 and #2 overall in NFL Defense. They also were #1 and #2 in rush defense by a good margin. The Steelers only gave him 22 total attempts in both games, but Williams did 118 yards as a receiver in these two games.



Compare and contrast


Bell did not do well vs St Louis ranked 23rd in defense (19 rushes 62 yards 3.26 YPC ). He also had a sub par game vs Arizona, ranked 5th in defense ( 24 rushes 88 yards 3.67 yards per carry )

When healthy, Bell can be viewed as better overall, but not by a wide margin. You can also argue that Williams is a better goal line back, and offers more speed.

I don't know if you know this, but STL might have been 23rd in defense for Yards/game, but they were 12th in yards per play (13th in Yards per rushing play). Sounds different when stated like that. They weren't 'good' overall, but the per/play stat doesn't suck. I don't know if they had more defensive plays overall (must have?) simply because they couldn't get off of the field or if their offense couldn't stay on the field or a combination of both. Bell's first game of the season.

Eddy Lacy had 2.1/carry against STL. Lynch 4.1 (not quite a yard more and, I think, 2nd highest paid RB), Adrian Peterson 4.3 (just over a yard more and the highest paid RB, I think). Some no names did way better against STL.

AZ was 9th in ypp. Vick and Jones were the QB's.

 

[ark steel]

And how did Williams do in those games. Dont remember

How many times are you going to get lucky to find someone like Williams that will sign for $2m? Doesn't seem like it is that often. Do these guys sit around waiting for Colbert to call? Can you find somebody to suffice? Sure, but it ain't a guarantee. You can always get cheaper.

If he has another good year, he still going to sign with us for $2m or will he want more? Still, less than $10-11m, but now he is 2 years older and will have more wear and tear.

 

[antdrewjosh]

Williams was a perfect storm. Older but not a lot of mileage and no ego.

 

[Coryea]

We will see. Its not like he can't play in that type of offense. That's the beauty of Bell.

Yeah, I'm not saying he can't play in that offense, but when Bell is healthy we seem dead set on running the ball to much, our passing game is still alot more dangerous than our running attack is, when Bell isn't in there we seem more willingly to come out throwing. We need to do that with Bell in there, he's so good out of the backfield.

 

[antdrewjosh]

Yeah, I'm not saying he can't play in that offense, but when Bell is healthy we seem dead set on running the ball to much, our passing game is still alot more dangerous than our running attack is, when Bell isn't in there we seem more willingly to come out throwing. We need to do that with Bell in there, he's so good out of the backfield.

I really don't see that. We run Alot of sets with Bell lined up wide or featuring him in the passing game. I honestly believe you can't go wrong with any of our big three.

 

[Omar10213245]

How about we just use our eyeballs when comparing the two not stats that can be twisted to look anyway you want..using just my eyeballs Bell>Williams by a large margin. Not that Williams is a slouch but Bell is that good.

Also let me add people kill me bitching about injuries when damn near all of you couldn't play with the week in and week out injuries that these guys play thru. Let alone the major ones they endure from playing the most physical sport.

Whether or not we keyboard warriors can, or cannot, deal with similar NFL player workloads/injuries is completely irrelevant.

 

[antdrewjosh]

Whether or not we keyboard warriors can, or cannot, deal with similar NFL player workloads/injuries is completely irrelevant.

You are correct. doesn't matter

 

[ark steel]

Williams was a perfect storm. Older but not a lot of mileage and no ego.

Exactly, those aren't just sitting around. He was good, but ended up not playing a lot. Still gained experience and maturity. Not a lot of guys his age at RB that have that little mileage. Knew his role, unlike the ******* Blount, and made the most out of his opportunities when he got them.

 

[Black & Gold Bleeder]

Yeah, I'm not saying he can't play in that offense, but when Bell is healthy we seem dead set on running the ball to much, our passing game is still alot more dangerous than our running attack is, when Bell isn't in there we seem more willingly to come out throwing. We need to do that with Bell in there, he's so good out of the backfield.

I think it has more to do with Haley's inability to find a good balance and make it work. We all know running the ball AND passing sets up both ,better passes and runs.

 

[Coryea]

I really don't see that. We run Alot of sets with Bell lined up wide or featuring him in the passing game. I honestly believe you can't go wrong with any of our big three.

We scored 31 ppg without Bell, and 21 with Bell, so either we are a better offense without him, which I do not believe, or we rely on our passing game more when Bell is not in there. And part of those 31 points per game were against Seattle, Denver, Cincy, 3 of the best defenses in the NFL.
Seattle we ran the ball 14 times and threw it 59 and didn't trail until mid way through the 4th. Cincy we threw it 39 times to 28 runs eventhough we lead the entire game, Denver we ran 17 times to 55 throws, I'm sure some of that had to do with us trailing.

 

[Coryea]

I think it has more to do with Haley's inability to find a good balance and make it work. We all know running the ball AND passing sets up both ,better passes and runs.

Absolutely, but you use your best weapon to set up the other, our passing game is potent, we should use that to set up the run game. With Bell, our passing game should be damn near unstoppable.

 

[Hines57]

Hard to gauge this team based on stats for this year comparing Bell v DWill. The tape is the tape right? How do you judge tape when Bell missed the first couple of games on suspension, then Ben got hurt and Bell was stuck with Vick and Jones as his QBs and then once he got Ben back he was hurt shortly after.

You have to go back to the 2014 season and see how Bell performed prior to being taken out by Nelson. He had a Marshall Faulk type season with 1300+ yards and 80+ catches with 800+ yards.

You guys don't want that on your team?

**** must be because we pay Pouncey too much.

 

[antdrewjosh]

As I'm watching the combine all the announcers are saying these backs want to be complete backs like guess who... Leveon Bell. Yeah let's get rid of him because of money. A player earns his money you sign him. Besides one incident Bell has been everything and then some. Even better then we ever thought.

 

[Coryea]

I want Bell for sure, him, Ben, Brown give us our best chance to win, but we have Brown who will want paid, Ben makes how much, Pouncey is signed, we need to sign DeCastro, do we have the room to sign him as well?

 

[antdrewjosh]

I believe we do the cap goes up every year. There is room for Bell.

 

[bermudasteel]

I think Bell is over-rated. Dont get me wrong he is a great back and a 3-down back, but I dont think the teams scoring would drop down much w/o him. Bell's patience is sometimes a downfall. If the line regresses or we play against a stout defensive front Bell will be going nowhere. If he loses a step due to injuries his patience may become more of a liability because he wont hit the hole fast enough. He also does not have break away speed like peterson. He does block very well and is a great safety valve, but i would not break the bank on a RB.

I need to be drunk reading the first statement. Hold on...BRB...