Regarding observations that "It's not the coach's fault" ... I respond.

[Coryea]

I was allowing for some SB hangover- but if you want to be a dick...

Using that argument, I could say that Tomlin took an under-performing 8-8 squad and made them into division champs his first year.

was just asking, why the need to get personal?

I wanted Tomlin here, he's the guy i wanted over Whiz and Grimm, but this is a trend with his teams.

 

[Bigappleyinzer]

Name the contract. Who can't they get rid of. And please explain why the salary cap is ******. I'd love to hear this.

Is Miller worth 5 million this year? Do you not believe that there are younger cheaper options at the position if his 5mm was not on the books? How about Troy's 7mm? Would you not agree that these contracts #'s hardly reflect these players production on the field?

 

[Bigappleyinzer]

was just asking, why the need to get personal?

I wanted Tomlin here, he's the guy i wanted over Whiz and Grimm, but this is a trend with his teams.

Meant to read "dickish" rather than "dick

Although I am surprised that the debates today have been rather objective. Not the usual hyperbole and "Fire XYZ" that I am used to seeing

 

[Steeltime]

Like I said before- you obviously have a hard on for Tomlin. Cowher had the same down season as MT, but I find hilarious that you are struggling to give Tomlin the same time to right the ship. Lots of season to be played

I don't like Tomlin as the Steelers coach because he is not a good coach.

You would have lobbied the Cowboys to keep Barry Switzer, I take it?

 

[Coryea]

Just calling it like it is, how many positions on this team are better now than they were when Tomlin took over?

 

[wig]

This is the problem right here with some of you-

We are 0.520 during a transition period and some of you are pretending as if we are severely underperforming. What was Cowher’s record when he was turning over the roster? Hell- there is probably 28 teams that would love a transition period that kept them in playoff contention.

I know the argument will be- “bu bu bu but we have Ben, we shouldn’t have down years!”. Well Ben was half the reason we lost yesterday! Can you imagine Peyton/Brady/Rodgers playing like Ben did yesterday? Rodgers and Brady throw for a combined 6 TDs with 0 int’s against the same defense that we struggled to move the ball against.

The team is slowly coming together, but these reactionary threads are getting ridiculous. At first everyone thinks we are a 8-8 team going thru some growing pains. Then we string together some wins, now everyone is expecting no less than a 1st round bye. We lose yesterday, now everyone is back to their 6-10 predictions. Its almost comical.

Ok...

So, how long is Tomlin's transition period then? After 3 years are the Steelers a 13-3 team then? Can we expect they are finished after this debacle of a season? Can we assume they will never again lose to .200 teams? Is that what you're suggesting? I mean they've lost to those kinds of teams for years but you're suggesting that's due to "transitioning". So OK. After three years I assume we can say that the transition bullshit is over. Tomlin DOES have the ability to cut the deadwood. Right? He brought back Deebo and Keisel so one has to assume that's part of his "transition" strategy. (Brilliant, by the way. Transition by getting "older". Just crazy enough to work!)

As I remember, Cowher had 1 non winning season. If not he certainly never went back to back with losing or non-winning seasons. He went 8-8 his last year. (The year his wife was dying of cancer, by the way.) I suppose you could argue the Steelers are dying of cancer too so admittedly Tomlin could ALSO be distracted as Cowher was. That's kind of ******, but you can see how Tomlin's failure to keep **** in order doesn't compare to Cowher's. Bill WAS mailing it in. We understand that now. and we know WHY the team was 8-8. We don't get WHY Tomlin's team is so God-Awful.

Regarding Ben's terrible day, As you LOVE bringing the statistical hammer down. Ben had a 81 passer rating day. Not terrible at all as the numbers go. He posted a 70% completion rate. One of his interceptions happened on a deflection. Sure he fumbled, but if you're getting your body pummeled by defensive linemen and linebackers that's going to happen now and then. Basically his day wasn't all that terrible. But I'm not going to defend the players particularly for yesterday. I'm going to continue to go on record saying they are pressing. Mistakes are being made because they are trying too hard to make up for a deficit due to being shellacked in the first quarter due to inadequate preparation and then an inability of the coaches in general to come up with a coherent plan to salvage the game. That left it up to the players to some how come up with an ad-hoc heroic effort to save the game. That leads to pressing, which leads to mistakes, which they made.

Our players aren't good enough to overcome our coaches inability to overcome any adversity that arises during the game. If everything goes perfectly then everyone is happier than pigs in poo. But if one thing goes wrong then everything goes to hell in a handbasket because our coaches have no idea what to do next. They can't make halftime adjustments then can't make in-game adjustments and as a result the players are left to try to sort things out themselves and frankly they aren't as an entire unit good enough to do that.

You point out that Brady et al throw for 6 TDs against the same defense without ints but what you fail to mention is that their Offensive coordinators didn't panic and have their QB's go to bread and butter screen passes and literally throw 8 passes for a combined 24 yards in what can only be considered a suicidally conservative playcalling maneuver. I mean honestly, what is the thinking there on Haley's part? And what is Tomlin doing allowing that? Dink and Dunk screen passes against the ONLY competency the Jets have?

The Jets went up big in the first quarter and Haley freaked out and went into thumb-sucking fetal position and Tomlin stood there on the sidelines like a freaking deer in the headlights and watched it happen. The players aren't quite talented enough to overcome the coaches ineptitude. We need 10 years of Brown's drafting position to get to that level of talent to overcome that kind of ineptitude. And I'm not saying Haley isn't a decent coordinator. I'm saying he flat out got into a panic situation and reverted to what he knows instead of taking a risk and letting Ben heave some balls downfield and get that defense on it's heels. The offense needed to be aggressive and get the Jets into a spread and nickel situation and instead Haley played right into the aggressive compact-blitzing run-stopping defense that the Jets wanted to employ. He brought everything in close and choked the Steelers offense and then he was unable or unwilling to see that what he was doing was playing right into the Jet's gameplan.

Cause the freaking Jets HAD a gameplan.

And finally, nobody with any sense expected a first round bye. Nobody with any sense believed we'd even win the division. A wildcard looked like it might be possible. But now that even looks like it's a pipe-dream. No. I'm more concerned that the Steelers will once again finish with a season that ensures a ****** draft pick and Tomlin will once again put together a crappy draft producing terrible picks that don't produce (accepting I suppose one token receiver and admittedly through blind luck a running back,) and that this "transition" you seem so ******* fond of will continue for another 3 years. Cause what's it take, 6 or 7 years. So just about the time they put together a somewhat competitive team, Roethlisberger will retire and we'll get Kent Graham 2 for a Quarterback and your ******* rebuilt team will be worthless as **** anyway.

That's what irritates me. Tomlin has taken a perfectly fine team and due to his inability to manage a roster or gameplan to save his soul wasted a hall of fame quarterback. Roethlisberger could have easily gotten three superbowls and perhaps 4 but there is no way in hell that Tomlin gets one with players he drafts and develops. NO WAY IN HELL.

 

[steelhurt]

Appleyinzer is one of those apologists for Tomlin's bad coaching. The only time this guy looked involved was last year in Baltimore when he got close to interfering with Jacoby Jones. He brings a whole new meaning to the twelfth man.

I ask the question one more time Apples. What has this guy built in his 8 seasons as coach of this team? Mediocrity!

 

[Steeltime]

Just calling it like it is, how many positions on this team are better now than they were when Tomlin took over?

Back-up long snapper.

Wait, that is still Harrison, isn't it? Damn it, give me a few minutes.

 

[Vader]

Is Miller worth 5 million this year? Do you not believe that there are younger cheaper options at the position if his 5mm was not on the books? How about Troy's 7mm? Would you not agree that these contracts #'s hardly reflect these players production on the field?

Name the guy then. What TE that was available this year would you have paid? Name the young $6.4 (not 7) million dollar safety that was available. Show me these great players in FA that could be signed. Also please explain the ****** up cap.

Also you talking about younger and cheaper. There are always younger and cheaper but not always better. You want to get rid of Worilds making almost $10 million this year? How about Timmons and his $11.8 million dollar cap hit this year?

 

[topseed]

Ok...

So, how long is Tomlin's transition period then? After 3 years are the Steelers a 13-3 team then? Can we expect they are finished after this debacle of a season? Can we assume they will never again lose to .200 teams? Is that what you're suggesting? I mean they've lost to those kinds of teams for years but you're suggesting that's due to "transitioning". So OK. After three years I assume we can say that the transition bullshit is over. Tomlin DOES have the ability to cut the deadwood. Right? He brought back Deebo and Keisel so one has to assume that's part of his "transition" strategy. (Brilliant, by the way. Transition by getting "older". Just crazy enough to work!)

As I remember, Cowher had 1 non winning season. If not he certainly never went back to back with losing or non-winning seasons. He went 8-8 his last year. (The year his wife was dying of cancer, by the way.) I suppose you could argue the Steelers are dying of cancer too so admittedly Tomlin could ALSO be distracted as Cowher was. That's kind of ******, but you can see how Tomlin's failure to keep **** in order doesn't compare to Cowher's. Bill WAS mailing it in. We understand that now. and we know WHY the team was 8-8. We don't get WHY Tomlin's team is so God-Awful.

Regarding Ben's terrible day, As you LOVE bringing the statistical hammer down. Ben had a 81 passer rating day. Not terrible at all as the numbers go. He posted a 70% completion rate. One of his interceptions happened on a deflection. Sure he fumbled, but if you're getting your body pummeled by defensive linemen and linebackers that's going to happen now and then. Basically his day wasn't all that terrible. But I'm not going to defend the players particularly for yesterday. I'm going to continue to go on record saying they are pressing. Mistakes are being made because they are trying too hard to make up for a deficit due to being shellacked in the first quarter due to inadequate preparation and then an inability of the coaches in general to come up with a coherent plan to salvage the game. That left it up to the players to some how come up with an ad-hoc heroic effort to save the game. That leads to pressing, which leads to mistakes, which they made.

Our players aren't good enough to overcome our coaches inability to overcome any adversity that arises during the game. If everything goes perfectly then everyone is happier than pigs in poo. But if one thing goes wrong then everything goes to hell in a handbasket because our coaches have no idea what to do next. They can't make halftime adjustments then can't make in-game adjustments and as a result the players are left to try to sort things out themselves and frankly they aren't as an entire unit good enough to do that.

You point out that Brady et al throw for 6 TDs against the same defense without ints but what you fail to mention is that their Offensive coordinators didn't panic and have their QB's go to bread and butter screen passes and literally throw 8 passes for a combined 24 yards in what can only be considered a suicidally conservative playcalling maneuver. I mean honestly, what is the thinking there on Haley's part? And what is Tomlin doing allowing that? Dink and Dunk screen passes against the ONLY competency the Jets have?

The Jets went up big in the first quarter and Haley freaked out and went into thumb-sucking fetal position and Tomlin stood there on the sidelines like a freaking deer in the headlights and watched it happen. The players aren't quite talented enough to overcome the coaches ineptitude. We need 10 years of Brown's drafting position to get to that level of talent to overcome that kind of ineptitude. And I'm not saying Haley isn't a decent coordinator. I'm saying he flat out got into a panic situation and reverted to what he knows instead of taking a risk and letting Ben heave some balls downfield and get that defense on it's heels. The offense needed to be aggressive and get the Jets into a spread and nickel situation and instead Haley played right into the aggressive compact-blitzing run-stopping defense that the Jets wanted to employ. He brought everything in close and choked the Steelers offense and then he was unable or unwilling to see that what he was doing was playing right into the Jet's gameplan.

Cause the freaking Jets HAD a gameplan.

And finally, nobody with any sense expected a first round bye. Nobody with any sense believed we'd even win the division. A wildcard looked like it might be possible. But now that even looks like it's a pipe-dream. No. I'm more concerned that the Steelers will once again finish with a season that ensures a ****** draft pick and Tomlin will once again put together a crappy draft producing terrible picks that don't produce (accepting I suppose one token receiver and admittedly through blind luck a running back,) and that this "transition" you seem so ******* fond of will continue for another 3 years. Cause what's it take, 6 or 7 years. So just about the time they put together a somewhat competitive team, Roethlisberger will retire and we'll get Kent Graham 2 for a Quarterback and your ******* rebuilt team will be worthless as **** anyway.

That's what irritates me. Tomlin has taken a perfectly fine team and due to his inability to manage a roster or gameplan to save his soul wasted a hall of fame quarterback. Roethlisberger could have easily gotten three superbowls and perhaps 4 but there is no way in hell that Tomlin gets one with players he drafts and develops. NO WAY IN HELL.

Incorrect. Cowher had three losing seasons total, including back-to-back in '98 and '99. However, that was after six straight playoff appearances, and four playoffs with at least one win. He turned it around in 2000 at 9-7, then had them back in the AFCCG in 2001.

 

[obxsteeler]

OK, let's not call them Cowher's players, let's call them the players that were here when he took over. Ben, Troy still the best safety on this team, IKE is our no. 1 CB, Miller our best TE, Keisel and Harrison had to be brought back in. It's clearly easy to see as those players that were here before he got here leave the team gets worse.

Are you old enough to remember what happened when the players of the 4 SB teams of the 70's left? And Noll was still here to rebuild.

 

[wig]

Incorrect. Cowher had three losing seasons total, including back-to-back in '98 and '99. However, that was after six straight playoff appearances, and four playoffs with at least one win. He turned it around in 2000 at 9-7, then had them back in the AFCCG in 2001.

I stand corrected.

 

[Steelerfan]

You know what's Tomlin's fault? Not having a giant, inflatable foot on the sideline to distract sexy Rexy.

 

[Xc944]

Is Miller worth 5 million this year? Do you not believe that there are younger cheaper options at the position if his 5mm was not on the books? How about Troy's 7mm? Would you not agree that these contracts #'s hardly reflect these players production on the field?

How about tomlins boy Timmons and 9.4 mill or Allen another Tomlin boy or worilds another Tomlin boy why do you leave them out

 

[Xc944]

You know what's Tomlin's fault? Not having a giant, inflatable foot on the sideline to distract sexy Rexy.

My Halloween costume was sexy rexy this year complete with a foot

 

[Rod Farva]

We got guys like Heath 30+ and wouldnt even start for most teams!

Uh, wait.....what?

Yes, what about 2009 Appleyinzer? I guess we got old for a year then. Tom is correct, leave Cowher out of the equation. Point being Tomlin has had 8 drafts and F/A opportunities to reload but what has he done? Ziggy Hood was his best impression of Aaron Smith, Uncle Jarvis was supposed to be James Harrison impersonator, Mike Adams was supposed to be that next great LT we've been looking for, Steve McClendon was supposed to make us put Big Snack in our rear view mirrors, Jason Worrlids was supposed to be that young talented consistent Lamar Woodley before he got fat and lazy, and Cortez Allen was supposed to make us forget about Keenan who? Of course lets not forget about the F/A's that Tomlin has brought in. Wait, I don't see anything resembling a James Farrior, a Jerome Bettis who was brought in via trade, a Mewelde Moore, a Ryan Clarke, a Jeff Hartings, a Kevin Greene. No we have Mike Mitchell, Artie Moats, Cam Thomas. Great job of reloading Tomlin.

Don't forget DHB! I know, I try to as well but just when it seems I've forgotten him he shows up just long enough to drop an eminently catchable pass and remind me that yes, we did pick him up.

Dude, stop it. Those 4 wouldn’t even be starting on most other teams. The only reason we still are holding on to them is because:

1.) We gave them idiotic contracts and cant get rid of them
2.) or they were the best we could get (hometown discount) b/c our salary cap is so fukked

Those dont really sound like coaching issues...

I'm willing to bet that your opinion of Heath would be a bit higher if he could actually run a route more often. But, alas his lot is to stay in and help out with an inferior OL which is the result of Bruce insisting that given enough weapons an O line could be relegated to an after thought. A line of thinking that was bought by our HC.

And that really does sound like a coaching issue.

 

[steelcan58]

Team in transition? That is the sorriest excuse ever for a team having the record the Steelers do against the dregs of the league. The simple reason is the players take on the HCs trait of being unfocused and are constantly unprepared for these games. There are no repercussions. Why should they give a ****. Some do but some don't. And the players that don't end up giving a **** is growing all the time. They take the easy way out and coach Dumbass Coolshades lets them.

 

[Coryea]

Are you old enough to remember what happened when the players of the 4 SB teams of the 70's left? And Noll was still here to rebuild.

They made another run 1984 and 1989, but overall weren't that good, so that gives Tomlin a pass at building a team? Cowher came in and started over-hauling the team immediately, then in the late 90's started the process all over again with success

 

[Omar10213245]

You clearly have a hard on for Tomlin. For you to suggest that a coach who is sitting at 6-4 and in the middle of the playoff should and would be on the hot seat, is borderline redicuolous.

We should not have lost yesterday- Obviously. But you can stop with the hyperbole.

he has a hard-on for tomlin??? YOU'RE the one tripping over yourself to defend him in thread after thread because hey, we're ONLY "transitioning" right now. If anyone has a rager for mr. platitudes, its you

 

[steelhurt]

At 6-3 last week after three nice wins at home how many on this board can be truthful and say they weren't uneasy about the next two games against lesser opponents? I was worried about this all last week like I'm worried now about next weeks game. I just do not have that level of confidence in this coach to have his team ready for these games that we should win. These worry me more than when we play the better teams because I know the team is pumped up and ready to play. We should put forth the same effort in preparations and in games no matter who the opponent happens to be.

 

[Troglodyte]

Are you old enough to remember what happened when the players of the 4 SB teams of the 70's left? And Noll was still here to rebuild.

He made the playoffs a few of the years with the likes of Mark Malone and Bubby Brister at QB.

 

[Steel G]

At 6-3 last week after three nice wins at home how many on this board can be truthful and say they weren't uneasy about the next two games against lesser opponents? I was worried about this all last week like I'm worried now about next weeks game. I just do not have that level of confidence in this coach to have his team ready for these games that we should win. These worry me more than when we play the better teams because I know the team is pumped up and ready to play. We should put forth the same effort in preparations and in games no matter who the opponent happens to be.

Yep, this is the problem with Tomlin's Steelers. Frankly, the best word I can use to describe my feeling watching that game was disgust. This team simply disgusts me.

 

[strat68]

These are professional football players. Quit treating them like high schoolers that need somebody to scream at them to get them motivated. Man the **** up and get yourself ready to play. Game planning is the coaches responsibility the week leading up the game. Walking out between the white lines on Sunday and performing better than the guy lined up across from you in your responsibility. It's a weak minded team. Does Tomlin and the staff share the blame? Yeah, they do but I put a a lot more onus on players getting embarrassed on Sundays. Play like you have some ******* pride! I didn't see a whole lot of getting outsmarted by trickery or wrinkles in the gameplan by the Jets today. I saw guys getting beat out there, missing tons of tackles and making horrible decisions with the football. My biggest beef with the coaching today was not attacking the weak DB's of the Jets all day long.

To paraphrase Chuck Noll, "If I have to motivate you then maybe you should find another line of work."

 

[Wingman]

Dude, stop it. Those 4 wouldn’t even be starting on most other teams. The only reason we still are holding on to them is because:

1.) We gave them idiotic contracts and cant get rid of them
2.) or they were the best we could get (hometown discount) b/c our salary cap is so fukked

Those dont really sound like coaching issues...Heath, Troy, Ike, and Kiesel.


Like I said before- you obviously have a hard on for Tomlin. Cowher had the same down season as MT, but I find hilarious that you are struggling to give Tomlin the same time to right the ship. Lots of season to be played

Those dont really sound like coaching issues...Heath, Troy, Ike, and Kiesel. Are you nukkin futz
Kiesel was not under contract and no dead money.
Heath is the best we have.
Troy is still the best safety we have.
Ike is still our best corner and took a hometown discount to stay.

The salary cap is fukked because of paying too much for Gilbert, and our corner back from the citadell Allen as well as all the dead money from Woodley a product of coach cool shades and no other. There are more issues I'm sure. I said last week this would be a test for MT to see if he has indeed become a good coach and I hoped he would show us what a great job he did. You continually want to say what a great coach this guy is because he went to two superbowls with players that had been here prior to his arrival and had won the game a year before he arrived.

He sure as hell did not get us to the playoffs his first six seasons did he, nope not a chance.

 

[Drink IRON City]

This comparing him to Cowher ****, is just that. Bill was in a whole different Category than our current coach. Bottom line, Bill never had the Cap problems that Mr. Epps has. Bill made the playoff 6 straight. It wasn't game planning that lost one of Bills's Super Bowls. Bill's talant evaluation was definitely "above the line" when comparing to Tomlin. Renew his contract, **** that, make him play out his final year, and if need be, then franchise tag his @ss.............. lol (I'd rather he be gone NOW)



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