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Mike Tomlin and the "who would replace him" meme

If Rooney fired Tomlin today would some other team make him thier head coach?
 
IndySteel said:
All the seasons under Tomlin have been disappointing except one. His only success was with the team that Cowher built.
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So every season under Cowher was disappointing as well except one?
 
Mike Tomlin and the "who would replace him" meme

Tomlin should have never been given this extension over the summer. Art has this misconception that longevity is one of the keys to the teams success. I beg to differ. Tomlin has become complacent and is too damn comfortable in his position.
There are plenty of young assistants out there chomping at the bit for a chance.

Who was Tomlin before we hired him?


Sent from my iPhone using Steeler Nation mobile app
 
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Steeler Pride said:
1. So if a fan with an opinion on a coach cannot name someone that YOU deem as a better option that means that there is no better coach out there. Once again, nobody knew who Cowher or Tomlin was before they were hired either.
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The first sentence is something I never said. What I said is those few mentioned (Harbaughs, , Ryan, Arians, Whisenhunt) are, demonstrably, not "better". That should be easy for anyone to see. The second sentence is irrelevant.

Clearly, what I said was, if you think a specific person would be better, you ought to be able to back it up and, in doing so, you should look at that coach the same way you look at Tomlin (i.e. the Tomlin lens). An incredibly easy example is the current Harbaugh HC. Obliterated by Jax 44-7. Others are, Whiz and Ryan, do they even have jobs in the NFL right now? Arians is 2-3 right now with losses to the 2-3 cowboys, the 3-2 Lions and 4-1 Eagles. His team beat the 2-3 Colts and the 0-5 49ers. No wins against a team which currently has a winning record. Last year finished 7-8-1. Four of those wins within the division where the 4-12 Rams and 2-14 49ers resided.

If you have to use the phrase, "so-and-so would do better with the talent on this team", keep in mind that the talent on this team, and we all know it is there, was put together by Tomlin, with the exception of Ben.

Steeler Pride said:
2. So now we can discredit a coach because he has a good QB, well **** Bill Walsh and Don Shula then too. All of the Tomlin supporters say it's bogus when people point out that Tomlin inherited a gold mine of a team and had success, but now that is your excuse for why other coaches are overrated...can you spell hypocrisy?
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I can spell hipocysy and I know what it means (see what I did there).....reading comprehension is key. People here say, without Ben, Tomlin would be ****. So, McCarthy has had either Favre or Rogers his whole HC career, does the same apply? This is what I refer to as the "Tomlin lens". See, I'm not even disputing whether McCarthy is better or not, I'm asking the same question you ask of Tomlin. What would he have done without those QB's? Obviously, in both cases, we will never know. We will know what they will do after those QB's go, but that doesn't change what they did here.

BTW, as I mentioned, that same team tomlin inherited and won a SB with, was 8-8 two year before (you can avoid wasting your breath on the excuses because that is what they are, right?). With Ben, in his first year, that powerful team was beaten as bad as Tomlin's team in the playoffs after going 15-1 in the regular season.

Steeler Pride said:
3. I ***** about a team that now after 10 years is consistently under performing, that comes out flat in almost every game. I ***** about a team that the leader left a decision that affects the image and perception of the franchise up to a player vote instead of being the leader and making a decision and expecting his men to follow his order. I ***** about a coach that is either directly or indirectly approving game plans that play into other teams strengths rather than their weaknesses. I ***** about a team that is so undisciplined we continue to get costly penalties at an alarming rate. I ***** about a team that lacks leadership to a degree that we have players doing facebook live feeds in the locker room when the coach is talking, getting suspended for drug related issues, players more concerned with social media then improving their game. I ***** about a team that was expected to compete for a SB this year that has played abysmal thru 5 games, an OL that is woefully under performing, a RB that wants $15 mil. a year that skips all of camp and is now inconsistent on the field, a QB that is under performing, a team that right now has 1 consistent WR, a defense that is in the bottom 10 in the league against the run, a team that while getting your *** kicked thinks it is a great idea to celebrate a tackle after you just gave up another first down, I ***** in general that this is a team that is undisciplined, unfocused, and lacks leadership. I am sure that Tomlin will unleash hell here soon when they go back to the lab. and continue to do the same damn thing again and expect a different outcome.
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So much perception and little fact. I guess you have to define "underperforming". Does that mean individual games or season? Does that mean they only won by 3 when you think the should have won by 20? Making it to the AFCCG does not seem like underperforming to me. Getting smoked by the cheaters, sucked, but, 1) they smoked just about every other team, 2) they are cheating *************. I don't define "underperforming" based upon how we do versus those cheating *************. I don't define "underperforming" as winning by 3 when I think we should have won by 20.

I define underperforming based upon the overall results of the season. I don't see how anyone can define the results of the last two seasons as "underperforming". We lost in the playoffs to the eventual SB winner. Really, the two underperforming years were the two 8-8 years and the 9-7 years missing the PO's.

I ***** about a team that is so undisciplined we continue to get costly penalties at an alarming rate.
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I assume you missed the thread where I said that I hope they fix this soon? Did you miss the thread a couple of years ago where we started off the season with 12 or 13 penalties per game for the first four games and everyone was saying it was Tomlins fault for the lack of discipline? Then we finished that season in the top 8 or so teams with the fewest penalties per game and there was a **** load of crickets?

http://www.nflpenalties.com/phase.php?view=play&year=2015

2016 middle (18th, I think) of the pack on penalties per play
2015 6th....
2014 14th...
2013 5th....

an OL that is woefully under performing
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another guy mentioned for the HC replacement has been Munchak due to the great job he did with the OL.....

Steeler Pride said:
4. I don't want Cowher back at all, his coaching ship has long sailed, but thinking that there is no young X and O's coach that is more authoritarian out there that can replace Tomlin is ridiculous. But feel free to make mass generalizations about everyone that disagrees with your assessment of Tomlin.
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Several people have expressed the opinion that Cower should come back. Look around for where I said there is not someone who could replace Tomlin and do better. You won't find it. My challenge as been simple, as stated earlier. Be a man, put up a name and back it up with some facts rather than your tender feelings. and, again

Steeler Pride said:
5. Since your think Tomlin is irreplaceable, answer these questions: a) What areas of this team are BETTER now than the team that he took over? b) What is our identity as a team, offensively or defensively?

The answer to those questions is a joke.
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How could the team possibly be better in anyway to that super-awesomest-ever team? The team that under the prior coach went to the SB once and twice with the ****** coach we have now. Odd....Do we need an "identity" or is that something people make up in their minds and their individual need to be satisfied? needing and "identity" to win games is the joke.

Here is our "identity", and it is the exact same as it was when Cowher was here. Ben is the straw that stirs the drink. If Ben has a ****** game, it will be almost impossible to win. From reading this board, Ben having a ****** game can only be a direct result of the game-plan or Ben gets the excuses that so-and-so ran the wrong route, so-and-so dropped the ball, etc. The coaches call the play, Ben decides who to throw it to on that play. If the WR drops the ball, was the play call bad, the pass delivery bad or just bad execution by the WR? if the WR was open and the ball hits him in the hands or is overthrown, how can you blame the game-plan?

We've already shown that, in the first half, Bell had averaged a whopping 3.1 ypc against the #32 rushing D. Should we have stuck with what wasn't working very well in hopes they would break? Maybe, maybe not. The results were 5 interceptions from our franchise QB, although a couple, could, easily be blamed on someone else. balls tipped at the line suck, but it can happen to anyone.

Drink IRON City said:
VERY well said and the constant through all this is Tomlin. He hasn't fixed / adjusted / maintained / disciplines a joke / well you get the point. NOW don't go thinking this guy is bitching cause we are losing....... I've said near the same while winning. I've stepped back and have given Coach Tomlin the respect and multiple patience to do things better but to near no avail. The talent on both sides of the ball is enough to go all the way but yet is so under utilized and disciplined that we have virtually no chance in hades of making a legitimate wave.




Salute the nation
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bmoritz said:
Couldn't have said it better myself. Well done Steeler Pride.
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AggieSteel said:
Really enjoyed this post. Sums up how I feel about our coaching. Which is sad, I loved MT in the first few years, had high hopes and hung on to defending him longer than I felt was comfortable. But it's becoming glaringly obvious that all these things you pointed out can only be a result of coaching
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Clearly, you didn't read my post or understand...


a RB that wants $15 mil. a year that skips all of camp and is now inconsistent on the field
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At the end of the last year, the 3 that most considered the top 3 Rb's were:

David Johnson, Ezekiel Elliot and Le'veon Bell. One of those sat out training camp and the pre-season games.

Stats for 2017 Elliot got EIGHT touches in pre-season The result is less than 1/2 yard per touch and one less TD over a pretty small sample size. Wow.

Total Touches Yards Yards/touch
 
hmm, my chart didn't post

[TABLE="width: 308"]


<colgroup><col width="77" style="width: 58pt;" span="4">
<tbody>[TR]

[TD="class: xl65, width: 77, bgcolor: transparent"]Name[/TD]

[TD="class: xl66, width: 77, bgcolor: transparent"]Touches[/TD]

[TD="class: xl66, width: 77, bgcolor: transparent"]Yards[/TD]

[TD="class: xl66, width: 77, bgcolor: transparent"]YPT[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD="class: xl65, bgcolor: transparent"]Elliot[/TD]

[TD="class: xl66, bgcolor: transparent"]122[/TD]

[TD="class: xl66, bgcolor: transparent"]527[/TD]

[TD="class: xl66, bgcolor: transparent"]4.319672131[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD="class: xl65, bgcolor: transparent"]Bell[/TD]

[TD="class: xl66, bgcolor: transparent"]130[/TD]

[TD="class: xl66, bgcolor: transparent"]515[/TD]

[TD="class: xl66, bgcolor: transparent"]3.961538462[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD="class: xl65, bgcolor: transparent"]D. Johnson[/TD]

[TD="class: xl66, bgcolor: transparent"]0[/TD]

[TD="class: xl66, bgcolor: transparent"]0[/TD]

[TD="class: xl66, bgcolor: transparent"]0[/TD]

[/TR]


</tbody>[/TABLE]
it isn't a half yard more per touch for Elliot, it is just over a 1/3rd.
 
I've always said it's easy to find 27 NFL head coaches who are worse than Captain Obviously but you can't name 27 who are better.
You don't have a half dozen hall of famers roaming the sidelines every week these days.
 
Next season perhaps Cinci or Cleveland would take Tomlin. Do you think either team would ever finish better than 8-8?
 
xjx said:
Next season perhaps Cinci or Cleveland would take Tomlin. Do you think either team would ever finish better than 8-8?
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the team we have now, supposedly, was put together by Tomlin, and they went to the AFCGG last year, so,,,,yeah.
 
Ron Burgundy said:
I've always said it's easy to find 27 NFL head coaches who are worse than Captain Obviously but you can't name 27 who are better.
You don't have a half dozen hall of famers roaming the sidelines every week these days.
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apparently, the argument is that ANYONE would be better....well, except for those 27....

There may, indeed, be an assistant out there that could do just as well and, maybe, better. If so, my challenge is to name them and give some logic/fact based evidence.
 
ark steel said:
apparently, the argument is that ANYONE would be better...
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Not my argument, ark. I say that better coaches ARE OUT THERE. A guy like Sean McVay was a nobody two years ago, and has taken a moribund Rams team and turned it into a very interesting and competitive team.

I have noted my support for Jon Gruden for the numerous reasons posted previously. Dude wins, wins with very mediocre QB's, has a balanced offense, is still pretty damn young, has as many Lombardies as Tomlin, a better regular season winning percentage, a better post-season winning percentage ...

With guys like Brad Johnson at QB.
 
So, with the Tomlin lens, Gruden goes to TB and takes a team mostly built by Dungy, that had been to the playoffs three straight years to the SB. In that SB, he plays the team he just left and knows intimately.

Having said that, i dont think i would mind Gruden as HC.
 
xjx said:
If Rooney fired Tomlin today would some other team make him thier head coach?
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Probably, because there are teams stupid enough to believe the media hype. Let 'em.
 
ark steel said:
apparently, the argument is that ANYONE would be better....well, except for those 27....

There may, indeed, be an assistant out there that could do just as well and, maybe, better. If so, my challenge is to name them and give some logic/fact based evidence.
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I would look at the Falcons O coordinator Steve Sarkisian really really hard.

I like his QB tutelage background and what he is doing with that Atlanta O.

http://www.atlantafalcons.com/team/coaches/Steve_Sarkisian/9efd9063-f075-46cb-aa2d-7ccd06f11d02
 
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Also

Pete Carmichael is in his eighth season as the Saints’ offensive coordinator after tutoring the club’s quarterbacks his first three years with the club. Throughout this time, he has been a key figure in the planning and preparations of an offensive attack that has been ranked first in the NFL in yardage in five of the last 10 seasons and in the top six each campaign. During this period of Carmichael’s tenure on the New Orleans coaching staff, the club’s 10-year streak of finishing in the top 10 in offense is the third-longest since the 1970 AFL-NFL merger
 
D coaches I would look at Kris Richard with Seattle........
 
We could hire God to coach this team, but it will be without Ben soon. So, no one will look good until we find that next great QB.

I would argue that Tomlin looked better than he is so far because of Ben. Without him we are onto the next coach(s).
 
Djfan said:
I would argue that Tomlin looked better than he is so far because of Ben. Without him we are onto the next coach(s).
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I would say that this is true of just about every HC in the NFL, past and present. There are a few exceptions. The real issue, I would think, is what did the coach do to get that QB? Did he fall into their lap ala Ben/Rogers or did they trade up to get them or trade to get someone who hadn't done great, but became better under the coach. Maybe Alex Smith fits this last scenario. Completion % has gone up and int;s have gone down, but that started the last two years at SF. Is that due to the coaching staff, or better supporting staff or a combination?
 
search
 
Djfan said:
We could hire God to coach this team, but it will be without Ben soon. So, no one will look good until we find that next great QB.

I would argue that Tomlin looked better than he is so far because of Ben. Without him we are onto the next coach(s).
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not buying this

The right coach the right scheme and they might be able to stretch something out of this team. Including Ben. Too much of a unknown to put a stamp on it.
 
All coaches will look good with great talent. My problem is that Tomlin seems to make great talent look average at best. With the talent we have on offense it should not be that difficult to put players in good positions. Why go empty backfield in short yardage when you have Bell? It makes no sense. If something isnt working mix it up stop doing it over and over and over. Same with the defense if your playing a crappy QB dont play zone. Make the QB throw accurately and certainly dont play with only 2 DL. Put in the big boys to stop the run and our secondary should be adequate enough to stop a blake bortles. Our defense did play well against JAX, but the game plan was still terrible. To me it seems that there are very simple things that this team could do to be better and are too stupid or stubborn to do. I just do not understand it.
 
slashsteel said:
not buying this

The right coach the right scheme and they might be able to stretch something out of this team. Including Ben. Too much of a unknown to put a stamp on it.
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I do think you can win consistently without a "franchise" QB. You have to be a team where everyone, but especially the QB, makes few mistakes and have an above the line D that keeps you in the game. For this to work, though, I think you do have to have an outstanding RB and, at least one, well above the line chain-mover type WR that can help keep the QB out of trouble.
 
xjx said:
If Rooney fired Tomlin today would some other team make him thier head coach?
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**** Rooney wouldn't have a team if he fired Tomlin, look at the **** storm because of Kaepernick not getting a job. could you imagine what would happen if ANY black coach gets fired this year. you could go 0-16 as a black head coach and your job is safe this year, there isn't one owner out there willing to take that risk...
 
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