As to not hijack the Predictions thread. Please tell me who you would rather have as head coach. Tell me who and why and Bill Belichick isn't an available option.
Jgp77 - HollywoodBags, Par, Franco, ARussell etc come on down
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I'm not who you're referring to but I said in another thread Pete Carroll or Dan Quinn. Carroll has his team in the post season every season, none of that 8-8 BS. After his first season, he's had 10+ wins every year. I feel like the Steelers roster has more talent, at least offensively for sure.
I realize Dan Quinn lost the Super Bowl in epic fashion but at least he was there and everyone knows he came out with the proper gameplan to at least give his team the best chance to beat the Pats. That's more than you could ever say about Tomlin.
Mike McCarthy is another obvious choice similar to the Pete Carroll reasoning. Tomlin even lost to him in a SB.
This isn't even considering some damn good coordinators or college coaches that would be better options. People act like Tomlin is a top 2 or 3 coach in the league around here when he isn't even top 5 IMO. He's top 10 but are we really shooting for above average?
I realize Dan Quinn lost the Super Bowl in epic fashion but at least he was there and everyone knows he came out with the proper gameplan to at least give his team the best chance to beat the Pats. That's more than you could ever say about Tomlin.
Mike McCarthy is another obvious choice similar to the Pete Carroll reasoning. Tomlin even lost to him in a SB.
This isn't even considering some damn good coordinators or college coaches that would be better options. People act like Tomlin is a top 2 or 3 coach in the league around here when he isn't even top 5 IMO. He's top 10 but are we really shooting for above average?
What has McCarthy done with Aaron Rodgers? Pretty much nothing.
Pete Carroll isn't a bad HC but I don't see where he's better than Tomlin. They both have short comings.
Pete Carroll isn't a bad HC but I don't see where he's better than Tomlin. They both have short comings.
especially on goal line situations in the Super Bowl.
If Tomlin had thrown in that situation on the goalline there would still be threads on it everyday on this forum.
I just want this guy to answer.
Probably tucked his tail. The old 24 hour rule for losses needs to go into effect again
Tomlin is not going anywhere anytime soon, that is the reality. At the same time, I have never understood why someone who opposes him has to be able to name a replacement for him to validate their opinion. Who was Cowher or Tomlin before they took over as a head coach, bet they were not front runners in most peoples minds at that time. Why did it take someone like Arians so long to get an opportunity as a head coach, I would say what he did with Luck in his rookie season in Indy and his accomplishments in AZ show he is pretty competent as a HC. Why was he passed over for so long given his resume? If I had to pick some guys that I think have the potential to be solid I would look at Houston DC Mike Vrabel, NE DC Matt Patricia, Stanford HC Dave Shaw, and I think Washington HC, Chris Peterson would be a good candidate based on the schemes he is running at the college level.
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I won't argue with what he did in AZ the first couple of years. You do realize they finished 7-8-1 last year, right? Started out 1-2 this year?
In any event, the issue in Indy, as should be clear to anyone who claims Tomlin can only win with Cowher's players (which we all know is BS, anyway), is the absolute perfect definition of "winning with another guy's team". Pagano put together that team, coordinators and assistant coaches. Arians taking over after Pagano got sick and not ******* up is somewhat commendable, but since the team won 10 games the following 2 years, after Arians left seems to point that it didn't have much to do with Arians. At all. There is no other logical conclusion. If they had dropped to 8-8 the year after you might have an argument,
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jumpball arians, getting your QB killed day by day
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Tomlin won't be leaving, if one can get fired for comment on Tomlin than he is protected for life. My one thing or two of Tomlin, he can't seem to see when to change things during a game, he sits on the same game plan as he starts with. We have seen it in three games , if needed bring in new blood for a series or two or get in someone's face, patting on head seems to not be working. There is something missing with this team and past teams under Tomlin that is hard to get, take away if you like Tomlin or not the coaching part has something missing when you observed other games and how coached. Many must see this or we would not continue to have this discussion. I will say Bell needs benched and motivated in some manner , his no showing unity and being in camp has shown in his performance in three games.
Did Bruce Arians Throw the Football Game Last Night? It's Quite Possible
So I was home last night, and like most of you was watching the Cowboys-Cardinals Monday Night Football game. For the most part it was entertaining, with Carson Palmer coming out of the gates 11-11, thus putting the Cards ahead early by a touchdown. Eventually, Dallas woke up and took the lead in the game. Early in the 4th quarter, with Dallas leading by 7, Arizona faced a 2nd and 18 on their own 33 yard line. Palmer dropped back to throw and uncorked a bomb down the right sideline to speedster receiver J.J. Nelson. Nelson tracked down the ball and initially made an incredible catch over the shoulder, but was soon ruled incomplete by a few other officials after huddling up. A quick replay of the catch CLEARLY showed the ball squirt out of Nelson’s arms as he hit the ground, never mind it being dicey if he even got two feet in bounds in the first place. Arians without a doubt in his mind threw the challenge flag almost immediately as if it was the clearest catch he’d ever seen in his life. It was almost like he didn’t even consult any other coach or replay assistant upstairs.
I mean that is the most obvious incompletion I’ve ever seen. The ball is literally rolling on the ground. Fourth quarter timeouts? Who needs em? Let that red flag fly high in the air. ******* IDIOT.
Oh but don’t you worry, Bruce Arians wasn’t done yet. Later in the 4th, the Cowboys went up 28-17. Arizona faced a 4th and 15 on their own 20 with just over four minutes to go. Bruce Arians decided to punt here. Dude, you’re down two scores with 4:15 to play: I mean, you have to go for it. I guess with a few timeouts and the two minute warning it’s conceivable to punt it away. Your chances of winning the game either way in that spot are slim to none anyways so I won’t roast Arians there too much. Fine. The next part is where I become convinced Arians bet the under of 47 points.
Dallas went three and out on the next drive, punting the ball back to Zona with 3:05 left and no timeouts remaining. You need TWO SCORES Bruce. TWO. A touchdown along with a two point conversion and a field goal with ZERO timeouts. Anyone with a brain knows the game plan here is to get in field goal range as quick as possible, cut the lead down to 8, leave as much time as possible on the clock, and then pray for the onside kick.
On a 2nd and 21, out of the two minute warning, Palmer chucked one deep Chad Williams drawing a pass interference flag (a 35 yard penalty), putting the ball on the Dallas 35. A gift from the Gods to over backers, and Bruce Arians’ Cardinals more importantly. Now you need one quick pass to the sideline to get a little closer and you have your field goal with plenty of time for an additional drive should you get the onside kick. The next play Palmer found Bruce Ellington for an 11 yard gain, along with a declined defensive holding penalty (stopping the clock). There ya go Bruce. The clock is stopped, you’re in plenty field goal range for an easy 40 yarder for Phil Dawson. It’s literally all set up for you. It’s practically spelled out for you to kick it. John Gruden is literally screaming down from the booth to kick the ******* field goal. He almost left the telecast to send the kicking team on himself.
Nope.
Palmer drops back to pass and is sacked, brining the ball back to the Cowboys 31 yard line. Spike the ball and kick the field goal Bruce.
Nope.
With a minute and 24 seconds left Palmer finds Brittan Golden on a 21 yard pass play down to the Cowboys 10 yard line. Golden manages to get out of bounds and stop the clock with 1:17 left. KICK THE FIELD GOAL.
Nope.
The next play draws a defensive holding penalty putting the ball on the 5. Fine at this point try a few times to score a touchdown I guess. Two incompletions follow the penalty leaving you 3rd and goal from the 5 with 1:06 left. Hey Bruce, I know you’re a moron and are still going for it but just throw the ball in the endzone if you’re gonna do it. What does Bruce call? A short out route to Larry Fitz who gets tackled in bounds. KICK THE FIELD GOAL.
Nope. Of course Bruce doesn’t have the field goal unit ready to run on the field and extend the game. Nope. He has Arizona’s offense scramble to the line of scrimmage as time ticks down (having zero idea what they’re doing) and has Palmer try to hit a prayer to Jermaine Gresham. The Cards turn it over on downs, despite being in field goal range for the previous EIGHT plays. EIGHT. Final score Cowboys 28 Cardinals 17. The total, sitting at 47 points, goes under miraculously. I mean I fully expect a 30/30 out in 15 years about the time Bruce Arians owed a Vegas mobster millions of dollars and used this MNF under to get out of it. It’s coming, don’t you worry. There’s just no other conceivable way to understand why Arians didn’t go for the field goal in any of those eight plays in Dallas territory. None.
To anyone with the over (most of you I would assume), I’m so so so sorry. No one deserved a loss like that.
So I was home last night, and like most of you was watching the Cowboys-Cardinals Monday Night Football game. For the most part it was entertaining, with Carson Palmer coming out of the gates 11-11, thus putting the Cards ahead early by a touchdown. Eventually, Dallas woke up and took the lead in the game. Early in the 4th quarter, with Dallas leading by 7, Arizona faced a 2nd and 18 on their own 33 yard line. Palmer dropped back to throw and uncorked a bomb down the right sideline to speedster receiver J.J. Nelson. Nelson tracked down the ball and initially made an incredible catch over the shoulder, but was soon ruled incomplete by a few other officials after huddling up. A quick replay of the catch CLEARLY showed the ball squirt out of Nelson’s arms as he hit the ground, never mind it being dicey if he even got two feet in bounds in the first place. Arians without a doubt in his mind threw the challenge flag almost immediately as if it was the clearest catch he’d ever seen in his life. It was almost like he didn’t even consult any other coach or replay assistant upstairs.
I mean that is the most obvious incompletion I’ve ever seen. The ball is literally rolling on the ground. Fourth quarter timeouts? Who needs em? Let that red flag fly high in the air. ******* IDIOT.
Oh but don’t you worry, Bruce Arians wasn’t done yet. Later in the 4th, the Cowboys went up 28-17. Arizona faced a 4th and 15 on their own 20 with just over four minutes to go. Bruce Arians decided to punt here. Dude, you’re down two scores with 4:15 to play: I mean, you have to go for it. I guess with a few timeouts and the two minute warning it’s conceivable to punt it away. Your chances of winning the game either way in that spot are slim to none anyways so I won’t roast Arians there too much. Fine. The next part is where I become convinced Arians bet the under of 47 points.
Dallas went three and out on the next drive, punting the ball back to Zona with 3:05 left and no timeouts remaining. You need TWO SCORES Bruce. TWO. A touchdown along with a two point conversion and a field goal with ZERO timeouts. Anyone with a brain knows the game plan here is to get in field goal range as quick as possible, cut the lead down to 8, leave as much time as possible on the clock, and then pray for the onside kick.
On a 2nd and 21, out of the two minute warning, Palmer chucked one deep Chad Williams drawing a pass interference flag (a 35 yard penalty), putting the ball on the Dallas 35. A gift from the Gods to over backers, and Bruce Arians’ Cardinals more importantly. Now you need one quick pass to the sideline to get a little closer and you have your field goal with plenty of time for an additional drive should you get the onside kick. The next play Palmer found Bruce Ellington for an 11 yard gain, along with a declined defensive holding penalty (stopping the clock). There ya go Bruce. The clock is stopped, you’re in plenty field goal range for an easy 40 yarder for Phil Dawson. It’s literally all set up for you. It’s practically spelled out for you to kick it. John Gruden is literally screaming down from the booth to kick the ******* field goal. He almost left the telecast to send the kicking team on himself.
Nope.
Palmer drops back to pass and is sacked, brining the ball back to the Cowboys 31 yard line. Spike the ball and kick the field goal Bruce.
Nope.
With a minute and 24 seconds left Palmer finds Brittan Golden on a 21 yard pass play down to the Cowboys 10 yard line. Golden manages to get out of bounds and stop the clock with 1:17 left. KICK THE FIELD GOAL.
Nope.
The next play draws a defensive holding penalty putting the ball on the 5. Fine at this point try a few times to score a touchdown I guess. Two incompletions follow the penalty leaving you 3rd and goal from the 5 with 1:06 left. Hey Bruce, I know you’re a moron and are still going for it but just throw the ball in the endzone if you’re gonna do it. What does Bruce call? A short out route to Larry Fitz who gets tackled in bounds. KICK THE FIELD GOAL.
Nope. Of course Bruce doesn’t have the field goal unit ready to run on the field and extend the game. Nope. He has Arizona’s offense scramble to the line of scrimmage as time ticks down (having zero idea what they’re doing) and has Palmer try to hit a prayer to Jermaine Gresham. The Cards turn it over on downs, despite being in field goal range for the previous EIGHT plays. EIGHT. Final score Cowboys 28 Cardinals 17. The total, sitting at 47 points, goes under miraculously. I mean I fully expect a 30/30 out in 15 years about the time Bruce Arians owed a Vegas mobster millions of dollars and used this MNF under to get out of it. It’s coming, don’t you worry. There’s just no other conceivable way to understand why Arians didn’t go for the field goal in any of those eight plays in Dallas territory. None.
To anyone with the over (most of you I would assume), I’m so so so sorry. No one deserved a loss like that.
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What has McCarthy done? He actually has an eerily similar resume to Tomlin so if you believe he's done nothing then Tomlin has done nothing too.
McCarthy's only seasons of non 10+ win seasons were his 1st season he was 8-8, 3rd season (1st year after Favre left so understandable) and 2013 when they still won their division at 8-7-1. He has 1 SB victory (like Tomlin), which happens to be AGAINST Tomlin.
I'd also say his experience with transitioning from a HOF QB to another damn good QB (late 1st round pick may I add) and maintain the same level of success is a very rare feat. Give me that experience and proven success now as Ben enters the retirement conversation over someone who hasn't dealt with that situation.
So you say McCar would be a good choice, but then say he's a clone of Tomlin. So what good would that do? McCarthy has also had the luxury of having Rodgers in a division with ****** opponents.
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Pete Carroll is a nice thought but I do not like the way he has de-prioritized talent on the offensive line. It shows now, the potential dynasty they could have had starting 3-4 years ago is dead
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And I know I'm not the guy the thread is directed to, but I will say this
None of us knew much (if anything) about Mike Tomlin before he interviewed to be our coach. I think the question "who would you have replace our current coach?" is usually a flawed one because it implies that the "correct" answer is someone with a better resume. How does it look naming someone who's never coached a game at the HC level, but that you have confidence in? Obviously not smart, on paper. But these are often the types of hires that change franchises. It's just that, as fans, we might not have a finger on the pulse of who these up and coming geniuses are.
Look at Sean McVey over in LA. Dude is making the RAMS offense, and JARED GOFF look unstoppable. Maybe it's a flash in the pan, maybe they'll get figured out, but as of now, it looks like he's done an amazing job with that offense.
I'm not saying we need to replace Tomlin. But, if the day comes that it IS that time, hopefully Colbert & co aren't just scouring the "names" that fans could all agree on because we know the name, face, and the resume. Nope - they're plugged in to the conversations about who the geniuses are out there, who are the assistants behind the scenes when players or teams have breakout seasons, etc.
None of us knew much (if anything) about Mike Tomlin before he interviewed to be our coach. I think the question "who would you have replace our current coach?" is usually a flawed one because it implies that the "correct" answer is someone with a better resume. How does it look naming someone who's never coached a game at the HC level, but that you have confidence in? Obviously not smart, on paper. But these are often the types of hires that change franchises. It's just that, as fans, we might not have a finger on the pulse of who these up and coming geniuses are.
Look at Sean McVey over in LA. Dude is making the RAMS offense, and JARED GOFF look unstoppable. Maybe it's a flash in the pan, maybe they'll get figured out, but as of now, it looks like he's done an amazing job with that offense.
I'm not saying we need to replace Tomlin. But, if the day comes that it IS that time, hopefully Colbert & co aren't just scouring the "names" that fans could all agree on because we know the name, face, and the resume. Nope - they're plugged in to the conversations about who the geniuses are out there, who are the assistants behind the scenes when players or teams have breakout seasons, etc.
I like Bill Obrien.
I like Pederson from Philly.. But he hasn't done enough yet.
I like Pederson from Philly.. But he hasn't done enough yet.
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When Arizona was "hot" as the "Bruce" was coach, many here wanted to know why he wasn't coaching here.......... **** that, glad he is gone. I don't have a name but if we change HEAD COACH then I think we should change OC & DC too. This may not go over very well with Ben about gone but in the long term I feel it would be best. (Disclaimer) Maybe keep Hailey till Ben retires.
Salute the nation
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I partly addressed that above about the upcoming transition from Ben to the next QB. I would trust McCarthy more than Tomlin on finding the next Ben and knowing how to handle the transition because he's done it before with success. I cringe at the thought of Ben retiring because I have no confidence we can find another great QB let alone develop one to his potential.
Not only McCarthy but Carroll developed an undersized 2nd round QB into a top 10 guy and he's had mediocre WR's to work with. His defense has been top 5 for a while now.
Dan Quinn got the best out of Matty Ice, so much so he won MVP. He also turned a bad defense into one of the best in a very short amount of time.
That's what good coaches do...take lesser talent on paper and "overachieve". There's a very good case for Tomlin doing the opposite.
Regarding the Packers bad division, I'm glad we don't have a horrible division because Tomlin can't beat teams we're supposed to beat anyway. At least you can say McCarthy does what he's supposed to.
I also never said he was a Tomlin clone. I said their resumes are similar. I think McCarthys coaching style is superior to Tomlin...meaning giving McCarthy the Steelers roster, I think he outperforms Tomlin.
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He developed a QB taken 24th overall in the first round? I wouldn't exactly say that's such an amazing feat. Ben wasn't the lottery pick of Alex Smith and company. He needed a lot of developing too, and most of it came under Tomlin. Packer fans aren't very fond of McCarthy and have wanted him out of town for awhile now.
Dan Quinn. If Mike Tomlin would've let up a 28-3 lead in the Super Bowl his body will still be on fire handing from the Library Bridge.
So again, my point still stands. You came up with 2 or 3 other coaches that aren't even 'better' than Tomlin, but deserve to be in the same conversation. For every Dan Quinn who gets hired as a head coach and has success their are 6 Josh McDaniels, Romo Crennell, Ken Whiesenhunt's etc.
Give Dan Rooney credit for finding two diamonds in the rough with Cowher, and Tomlin. Noll too if you want to include him. We've been extremely lucky.
Dan Quinn. If Mike Tomlin would've let up a 28-3 lead in the Super Bowl his body will still be on fire handing from the Library Bridge.
So again, my point still stands. You came up with 2 or 3 other coaches that aren't even 'better' than Tomlin, but deserve to be in the same conversation. For every Dan Quinn who gets hired as a head coach and has success their are 6 Josh McDaniels, Romo Crennell, Ken Whiesenhunt's etc.
Give Dan Rooney credit for finding two diamonds in the rough with Cowher, and Tomlin. Noll too if you want to include him. We've been extremely lucky.
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Rodgers was drafted #24 so he wasn't a can't miss QB prospect like a Luck or Manning going #1 overall. Back then there was a reason he slid the same way Brady Quinn slid to around the same spot and both had opposite NFL careers. I wasn't saying developing Rodgers was a big feat for McCarthy anyway, it was more how he handled the situation of Favre in limbo for a few seasons and kept Rodgers waiting in the wings and ultimately had a smooth transition to continue winning. That's rare in the NFL. We are smack dab in the middle of the same situation without anyone waiting in the wings so I'm sorry if I lack the confidence of Tomlin being able to magically pull the next Rodgers in the next draft and have him ready to keep winning when Ben leaves. I think if McCarthy was here, he would've taken his prior experience and made sure we had a capable starter for when Ben decides to retire which is within the next year or two. Because it for sure as hell isn't Landry Jones or Josh Dobbs.
RE: Quinn - Is giving up a 28-3 lead worse than not even being competitive at all? Just a game before the SB, we looked like we didn't even belong on the same field as the Pats. So not sure how this means Quinn is inferior to Tomlin. It actually proves my point that Quinn came out with the best gameplan you could have against the Pats and aside from 2 questionable series by the Atl offense in the 2nd half, they dominated a team that Tomlin has always looks lost against.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Tomlin is a bad coach. I just provided some names who I thought could take this roster over the hump. I could name 15 off the top of my head that are worse so it's not like I'm putting him in the Rex Ryan/Marvin Lewis category (how those guys still have jobs is beyond me). That also doesn't mean Tomlin is this untouchable coach that can do no wrong which is what some people on here make it seem like.
I just find it very odd that some people literally have a hard time saying Tomlin has ever done anything wrong as a coach. At least you acknowledge he has flaws which is more than some will say on here.
I think the moral of the story is as fans we're sick of watching this team underachieve...granted anything short of SB victory is underachieving so we do have higher standards than most. For Jacksonville, LA, Cleveland, Cinci etc, Tomlin would be the next coming of Lombardi so we've become a bit spoiled in what we expect out of this team. At some point though, Tomlin becomes the only constant in the season after season of underachievement. So at what point does consistently losing to bad teams and squeaking into the playoffs and never having home field become what to expect and not something we will actually overcome under Tomlin. I'm at that point and I know some others on here are as well.
I like Shaw a lot from your list. A big HELL NO to Pete Carroll. If we were to keep it in house, I wouldn't mind promoting Munchak.