• Please be aware we've switched the forums to their own URL. (again) You'll find the new website address to be www.steelernationforum.com Thanks
  • Please clear your private messages. Your inbox is close to being full.

Kizer??

Stoney said:
I would literally boycott the season if they WASTED their first round pick on a player destined to be a 2-3 year back up player. He will contributed NOTHING to Ben's final years.

I want one of the top 3 tight ends.
Click to expand...

This really makes me want to see it happen. You would have boycotted last season if they had taken Dak Prescott in the first round. Consider for a moment how ******* retarded that is.
 
Kizer may fall to the Steelers.

Five players most likely to take a tumble in the draft.

http://www.msn.com/e...Kz&ocid=UE13DHP

Kizer is falling down draft boards like a rock.

DeShone Kizer, quarterback, Notre Dame

Before those who analyze talent started taking a deep dive into the 2017 NFL Draft, Kizer was seen as a guy who, along with Deshaun Watson, might be the top quarterback taken this year. Fast forward a few months and not only will Kizer almost certainly not be selected in the first round, but he could slide all the way into the third round…or further.

Maturity issues are one reason. One AFC head coach reportedly thinks Kizer has “diva qualities,” and the quarterback recently waffled back and forth about comments he made saying he was like a mix of Tom Brady and Cam Newton (more on that here).

Then there’s the matter of his NFL readiness. His own head coach at Notre Dame doesn’t think Kizer is a polished product and says he should have stayed in school, which Kizer shockingly said he agreed with. His numbers from last season indicate this is the truth as well. Kizer led a team that went 4-8 while completing just 58.7 percent of his passes (yuck) and made some baffling late-game decisions.

Kizer is falling down draft boards like a rock.
 
3rd round, I could live with. He would be a project/learn behind a HOF back-up anyway here for a few years. If he came out next year, where would he go? If he's a great candidate to take over Ben's reigns, then pull the trigger. It's OK to wait and see who is available next year, too, if no one is jumping off the board.
 
**** that! A QB in round 1 of this draft is a complete waste.

Although, I may be wrong I think Ben plays out his contract.

We need a player that helps immediately.
 
Stoney said:
I would literally boycott the season if they WASTED their first round pick on a player destined to be a 2-3 year back up player. He will contributed NOTHING to Ben's final years.

I want one of the top 3 tight ends.
Click to expand...

Ummmmm, that's some revisionist history.
Ben was not selected at our #11 spot to come in and play immediately.
He was actually slated to sit for the year until both Maddox and Batch got injured and was forced to play.
Soooooo, was that a "wasted" pick because he was going to sit and contribute nothing that year?
Put yourself in 2004 draft season mode, not "we already know how this plays out because it's 2017" mode.
 
I like Kizer. The stuff that I saw came on him he came across well, has all the tools and is just raw. A year or two behind Ben would do him good and give him the chance to pick up the stuff that the NFL needs QBs to do differently.
 
Peterman is probably the closest to NFL ready QB and he needs a year or two watching. 3/4 rounder most based on assessment. If he's there in those rounds he would be a good risk.


Sent from my iPhone using Steeler Nation mobile app
 
Solid pick in the 3rd round. I like the upside.

Yes, he is a diva BUT he has some nice physical skills. Here is the issue: Name QBs that were better in the NFL than they were in college.
 
fogdoctor said:
Solid pick in the 3rd round. I like the upside.

Yes, he is a diva BUT he has some nice physical skills. Here is the issue: Name QBs that were better in the NFL than they were in college.
Click to expand...

Brady was a backup to Drew Henson at Michigan
 
That is the only one I could remember too.

So, picking QBs in college and expecting them to get better in the NFL is a bad idea based on percentages. That really worries me about Kizer; probably to the point where I would not take him in the first 3 rounds.

We can't take a QB that could not complete 60% of his passes in college and expect him to get better in the NFL.
 
I've heard Kizer compared to Steve McNair. If he would have a similar career to SM, I'd be OK with the pick. If he end up like Jamarcus Russell, then. . . not so much.
 
Why take him in the 3rd if you don't think he can amount to anything? Unless you think he does have some talent.
 
NO WAY.

The guy lacks a fast ball, and threw 15 interceptions in his last 23 starts. While he can run some, he's not going to be a huge running threat in the NFL with his 4.83 speed. Pretty much every LB is faster than that. I think our very own rudy undersized rookie LB last year ran a 4.82, and he's on the slower side.
 
Coach said:
NO WAY.

The guy lacks a fast ball, and threw 15 interceptions in his last 23 starts. While he can run some, he's not going to be a huge running threat in the NFL with his 4.83 speed. Pretty much every LB is faster than that. I think our very own rudy undersized rookie LB last year ran a 4.82, and he's on the slower side.
Click to expand...

You are the first person I've seen cite poor arm strength/questioning a "fast ball".
Also, I'm pretty sure nobody has compared him to Michael Vick.
A pick and a half average/game over a time period of Notre Dame absolutely SUCKING with no supporting cast.

I see his knocks as not enough starts/seasoning, relying on his physical skills over his mental ( ie trying to squeeze one in rather than throw to a spot in anticipation ), and his judgement.
But I see these things as coachable.

TMC - Not saying Steelers should or should not draft him at any particular spot, but what does our resident draft guru see when looking at his tape?
 
fedderone said:
TMC - Not saying Steelers should or should not draft him at any particular spot, but what does our resident draft guru see when looking at his tape?
Click to expand...

I don't think he has a poor arm. He gets the ball there in enough time and can make most of the throws. He holds the ball down below his numbers a lot and has a bit of a longer throwing motion, really reminds me of Byron Leftwich. When he looks comfortable, he can step into throws and does a good job with ball placement, but he doesn't handle pressure well, be it a pass rush where he has to read and get it out or the pressure of big moments in the game. He stares down receivers and doesn't work through progressions well. Wide base, wind up, passes can be inaccurate and some of his INTs are damn ugly, as in, I don't want to throw it to anyone but this guy and I don't care if the DB is standing in front of him, I'm throwing it anyway ugly. I just don't know if he processes the game quickly enough. I don't see McNair in his game. And, at Gruden's QB camp, Kizer said that there were DCs that told their corners that there were throws college QBs could not make and he wanted to prove to everyone that he could make those throws. I'm not a big fan of that. If there are tough throws and they scheme you to make them tough, learn to read defenses and find easy throws. I just don't get that mentality. Talk is, he is more interested in being known as an NFL QB than he is actually being a QB.

I'd rather take a guy like Peterman or Dobbs. They might not have the athletic talent, but I think they bring better intangibles and mentalities. QB has so many things you just cannot monitor with a tape measure or stopwatch.
 
I'll also add this, per the radar gun, Kizer threw 52 MPH. Guys with guns throw 60 MPH. In the mid-50s is comfortable but guys in the league range from 50-60. This highest this year was Davis Webb at 56. Several were at 55. Trubisky was at 51. Watson was at 45. Last draft, 56 MPH was tied for 4th and 55 MPH was tied for 8th. Connor Cook was the only guy below 52 last year and he clocked in at 50. All these were done at the combine.
 
TMC said:
I'll also add this, per the radar gun, Kizer threw 52 MPH. Guys with guns throw 60 MPH. In the mid-50s is comfortable but guys in the league range from 50-60. This highest this year was Davis Webb at 56. Several were at 55. Trubisky was at 51. Watson was at 45. Last draft, 56 MPH was tied for 4th and 55 MPH was tied for 8th. Connor Cook was the only guy below 52 last year and he clocked in at 50. All these were done at the combine.
Click to expand...


Just to us some insight to compare against current NFL QB's... where does Ben (and other current NFL QB's) fit in MPH? Cutler? Luck? Newton? Stafford? Flacco? Rodgers?

Also, I have read in a few places that Mahomes has a Rodgers-like arm? Your thoughts?

.
 
Last edited:
steelpastor said:
Just to us some insight to compare against current NFL QB's... where does Ben (and other current NFL QB's) fit in MPH? Cutler? Luck? Newton? Stafford? Flacco? Rodgers?
Click to expand...
I believe Ben was clocked at 93 MPH at the combine that year. ;)
 
steelpastor said:
Just to us some insight to compare against current NFL QB's... where does Ben (and other current NFL QB's) fit in MPH? Cutler? Luck? Newton? Stafford? Flacco? Rodgers?

Also, I have read in a few places that Mahomes has a Rodgers-like arm? Your thoughts?

.
Click to expand...

A lot of your highly rated QBs don't throw. Flacco was a 55. Stafford did not throw. Luck did not throw. No data on Rodgers, Ben, Cutler or Newton. I'd be surprised if any of them threw. As I said, most NFL QBs are in the 50-60 MPH range, but there is no correlation between MPH and QB success.

I don't think arm strength is an issue for Kizer though, played baseball through high school and could have pitched. Seems like I read he threw in the high-80s and that is pretty strong. In fact, when he was 3rd on the depth chart at Notre Dame, he thought about quitting football and playing baseball.

Still, plenty of QBs that don't punch big numbers on a radar gun can sling it around the yard. Manning was not known for his gun.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top