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The player to make our nickel shine in this draft

Coach

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Our nickel isn't the best, and the Steelers for whatever reason have not been good at covering the tight end.

In this draft, there is an elite level player, big and tall enough to cover the tight ends, and fast enough to be really good in the zone.

His name is Obi Melifonwu. A 6'4" 220-pound hybrid safety and linebacker. A freak of an athlete who runs a 4.4, has a vertical leap of 44" Very productive vs the run, good enough vs the pass

If the pass rushers are gone, and the top corners are gone at pick #30, this could be the comprise pick in round one.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/obi-melifonwu?id=2558189
 
there will be plenty of edge guys at #30. I'd be happy to nab a cb like Humphrey in rd 1, trade up for Edge in rd 2 (maybe Lawson), then Cam Sutton at rd 3a.
 
Anyone that can actually cover and ready to play would be a change.

Well, Shazier can cover. He's very good, better than any of our safeties in man coverage if you want my opinion on it.

But who else can we pair him with in the nickel defense? Vince Williams is simply too slow. Dirty Red is also too slow, though he's pretty smart in coverage.

A player like Obi Melifonwu can really improve our base nickel, which is a formation the Steelers play often.
 
After all the discussion by deljzic and tmc in the other threads about a week ago where it was explained why obi would be ideal for the nickel as he can play cb or safety and is practically a plug & play nfl ready player, you decide to create a thread to say the same damn thing as it were a novel idea that you discovered watching tape?

Facepalm...
 
After all the discussion by deljzic and tmc in the other threads about a week ago where it was explained why obi would be ideal for the nickel as he can play cb or safety and is practically a plug & play nfl ready player, you decide to create a thread to say the same damn thing as it were a novel idea that you discovered watching tape?

Facepalm...

If I read your posts, you might have a point. Stealing your thunder is worth $.00 to me. So apologies as you must have some very thin skin.

But since you might agree with me, I should re-evlaute my position!
 
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lol coach you are something else
 
If I read your posts, you might have a point. Stealing your thunder is worth $.00 to me. So apologies as you must have some very thin skin.

But since you might agree with me, I should re-evlaute my position!

You couldn't even share your opinion and say "hey, you are right, I like this guy too and agree that he'd fit nicely on the Steelers" nooo, you had to take credit for something I and some others already said in this very forum .

Coach give us a new thought of your own, I'm waiting
 
You couldn't even share your opinion and say "hey, you are right, I like this guy too and agree that he'd fit nicely on the Steelers" nooo, you had to take credit for something I and some others already said in this very forum .

Coach give us a new thought of your own, I'm waiting

You must have missed my threads:

1 ) Better prepare for life after Ben. QB in rounds 2-3 this season. I like Davis Webb

2 ) Pass rusher or CB in round one.

3 ) Trade down if possible.

4 ) Since we are very close, it would make sense to max out the cap space...NOW Yet the Steelers have not.

5 ) You remain a yinzer :)
 
You must have missed my threads:

1 ) Better prepare for life after Ben. QB in rounds 2-3 this season. I like Davis Webb

2 ) Pass rusher or CB in round one.

3 ) Trade down if possible.

4 ) Since we are very close, it would make sense to max out the cap space...NOW Yet the Steelers have not.

5 ) You remain a yinzer :)

i could delete then and nobody would miss them.....
 
What's all the UPROAR??????????????????? I haven't read every post of every thread on this MB so it's kind of good to get these shorter threads even if duplicate to a degree. Sometimes the 900+ page thread has a lot of information but to long to completely read thoroughly, thus the shorter compact gets started. No offense or defense for either is intended, this is just me and my reading habits. NOW if this was the 109 page midget thread,.............all hell would break loose.!!!!!!!!





Salute the nation
 
What's all the UPROAR??????????????????? I haven't read every post of every thread on this MB so it's kind of good to get these shorter threads even if duplicate to a degree. Sometimes the 900+ page thread has a lot of information but to long to completely read thoroughly, thus the shorter compact gets started. No offense or defense for either is intended, this is just me and my reading habits. NOW if this was the 109 page midget thread,.............all hell would break loose.!!!!!!!!


Couldn't agree more.
 
This is a discussion that has been kicked around on other message boards for a while. There are articles dating back to the 2014 season about how the Steelers sub-packages need to evolve, kind of happened with the retirement of Casey Hampton. They no longer had a pure run stopper in the middle, so the evolution idea was born. Not sure that Melinfonwu is a a linebacker though. He was a box safety at UConn. So, I'm not a fan of calling this a pure nickel, because he really is a DB, more of a heavy dime. Still, semantics. Oddly enough, not new, Steelers have fiddled with the passing sets for a while. I am sure everyone remembers the Penny defense, where Hampton played down, Keisel was up, had 4-5 standing LBs/DEs milling around and 5-6 DBs behind it. Failed pretty badly. They used the nickel last year a lot because Timmons and Shazier stayed healthy, so they were putting their best 11 on the field. Heyward was injured about the time Hargrave had his rise, Dupree returned, inserted Harrison, just kind of dictated by personnel. So, you are running 2 down DL, 2 edge rushers, 2 ILBs, and your 5 DBs. But, if Shazier goes down last year, do you insert Williams or Golden? If it is Golden, you are going dime. That happened in 2014, Vince Williams rookie season. Foote goes down, Shazier battles injuries, and they walk Polamalu down into the box. Flushed back to more nickel in 2015, but they flex based on personnel.

The biggest question is, which way do they want to go? I still don't know Butler's ultimate plan. This is just his 3rd draft, took Dupree/Golson in the first and Burns/Davis/Hargrave in the 2nd. Well, frankly, those guys can fit in about any system. Golson might be the toughest fit because he looks like a slot corner due to size, but that 3rd corner gets plenty of snaps in today's NFL. Hargrave is a DT/NT, but his strength pre-draft was pass rusher, not so much as stumpy run stopper. The two key traits are athletic and versatile. Melinfonwu fits those. Is he a deep corner? I don't see him as a single high or even a great cover-2 guy. He can be slow to react on the deep end. He is a box, SS or hybrid. Do you move Davis in 2 years to accommodate him? He was a late 2nd/3rd round guy until he blows up the combine. He isn't Byron Jones on film, not even close. So, do you draft him at #30 when his fit might be box only? I'm not so sure. Second...maybe. Still, depends on the board for me and who I took early.

It is why I like DBs like Awuzie and Baker. Baker can play your slot early, move to FS later, and the defense keeps on chugging. You can add that box/big safety in the middle or later rounds if you want that hybrid. Or, you can draft a pure safety and bounce Davis down, I feel certain he can handle it. Tough call, really all depends on the Tomlin/Butler plan for the defense and how many true DBs they want to employ. If it is 5, I think they go ILB, pure ILB. If it is 6, might see that hybrid. The alignment in front of those guys should tell something too. If they use 3 DL (Heyward, Tuitt, Hagrave), hybrid is more likely to me. If they use 2 DL, probably go traditional LB because they might need more of a run presence. They entertained the idea of signing Hightower, so that might be the plan. Or, they might evolve the defense to the available talent.
 
there will be plenty of edge guys at #30. I'd be happy to nab a cb like Humphrey in rd 1, trade up for Edge in rd 2 (maybe Lawson), then Cam Sutton at rd 3a.

I'm really hoping Humphrey is there at 1.30.
He is the PROTOTYPICAL Steelers CB IMO.

- Good size
- Strong
- Attacks ball carriers
- Good speed
- Great coverage

His issues lie with the deep ball and tracking.
The coverage downfield can be taught. Tracking the ball, not so sure.
However, dude would be a great compliment to Artie.

Follow him up with :
2. Lawson OLB
3. Maye S
3b. Henderson WR
4. Gallman RB
5. Kittle TE
 
What's all the UPROAR??????????????????? I haven't read every post of every thread on this MB so it's kind of good to get these shorter threads even if duplicate to a degree. Sometimes the 900+ page thread has a lot of information but to long to completely read thoroughly, thus the shorter compact gets started. No offense or defense for either is intended, this is just me and my reading habits. NOW if this was the 109 page midget thread,.............all hell would break loose.!!!!!!!!


Salute the nation

That's 166 pages to you, young man. Don't sell Archer short.
 
That's 166 pages to you, young man. Don't sell Archer short.



No matter how high you stack them, Archer still falls short.................................................




Salute the nation
 
This is a discussion that has been kicked around on other message boards for a while. There are articles dating back to the 2014 season about how the Steelers sub-packages need to evolve, kind of happened with the retirement of Casey Hampton. They no longer had a pure run stopper in the middle, so the evolution idea was born. Not sure that Melinfonwu is a a linebacker though. He was a box safety at UConn. So, I'm not a fan of calling this a pure nickel, because he really is a DB, more of a heavy dime. Still, semantics. Oddly enough, not new, Steelers have fiddled with the passing sets for a while. I am sure everyone remembers the Penny defense, where Hampton played down, Keisel was up, had 4-5 standing LBs/DEs milling around and 5-6 DBs behind it. Failed pretty badly. They used the nickel last year a lot because Timmons and Shazier stayed healthy, so they were putting their best 11 on the field. Heyward was injured about the time Hargrave had his rise, Dupree returned, inserted Harrison, just kind of dictated by personnel. So, you are running 2 down DL, 2 edge rushers, 2 ILBs, and your 5 DBs. But, if Shazier goes down last year, do you insert Williams or Golden? If it is Golden, you are going dime. That happened in 2014, Vince Williams rookie season. Foote goes down, Shazier battles injuries, and they walk Polamalu down into the box. Flushed back to more nickel in 2015, but they flex based on personnel.

The biggest question is, which way do they want to go? I still don't know Butler's ultimate plan. This is just his 3rd draft, took Dupree/Golson in the first and Burns/Davis/Hargrave in the 2nd. Well, frankly, those guys can fit in about any system. Golson might be the toughest fit because he looks like a slot corner due to size, but that 3rd corner gets plenty of snaps in today's NFL. Hargrave is a DT/NT, but his strength pre-draft was pass rusher, not so much as stumpy run stopper. The two key traits are athletic and versatile. Melinfonwu fits those. Is he a deep corner? I don't see him as a single high or even a great cover-2 guy. He can be slow to react on the deep end. He is a box, SS or hybrid. Do you move Davis in 2 years to accommodate him? He was a late 2nd/3rd round guy until he blows up the combine. He isn't Byron Jones on film, not even close. So, do you draft him at #30 when his fit might be box only? I'm not so sure. Second...maybe. Still, depends on the board for me and who I took early.

It is why I like DBs like Awuzie and Baker. Baker can play your slot early, move to FS later, and the defense keeps on chugging. You can add that box/big safety in the middle or later rounds if you want that hybrid. Or, you can draft a pure safety and bounce Davis down, I feel certain he can handle it. Tough call, really all depends on the Tomlin/Butler plan for the defense and how many true DBs they want to employ. If it is 5, I think they go ILB, pure ILB. If it is 6, might see that hybrid. The alignment in front of those guys should tell something too. If they use 3 DL (Heyward, Tuitt, Hagrave), hybrid is more likely to me. If they use 2 DL, probably go traditional LB because they might need more of a run presence. They entertained the idea of signing Hightower, so that might be the plan. Or, they might evolve the defense to the available talent.



You want a safety in Baker to play the slot?. Baker to me is a center field type with good speed, range and ball skills. However, he's a little small, and could be injury prone in the NFL. Reports say taller TE's have their way with him.

Awuzie can play either the slot or outside, and has superior size. I'd much rather have him in round one. Pass on Baker in round one please!

Butler's scheme seems to be a soft zone with good pass rushers. When the Steelers had Heyward healthy, the pass rush was decent enough with several guys that could get the job done.

But this 6-8 yard cushions from the cornerbacks with limited playmaking in terms of splash plays from the safeties sucks. Mitchell had but one interception last season. Davis also had one, but he dropped two easy throws that should have been interceptions.

I'd like to see TJ Watt or Awuzie be our first pick.

Watt can juice up the pass rush, plays the run well and like his brother has a knack for batting down passes.

Awuzie can add size, speed, and versatility to a defensive backfield that is not very versatile, or fast in general.

The wild card is Obi Melifonwu , who can be a base linebacker in the 4-3, ( Outside weak side LB ) nickel, or dime...maybe in the base 3-4. The more I see and read about Obi, the more I think he fits the modern NFL

Obi is Tall ( 6'4 " ) , Fast ( 4.40 40 ) , with coverage skills. And man can he leap high! A mini linebacker type who's a force vs the run or pass. Tall enough to cover TE's, fast enough to prevent first downs from running QB's or backs catching the ball short and converting a first down. As long as he's protected from pulling offensive lineman, I think he could be star.

I'd be happy with one of these three.
 
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You want a safety in Baker to play the slot?. Baker to me is a center field type with good speed, range and ball skills. However, he's a little small, and could be injury prone in the NFL. Reports say taller TE's have their way with him.

Awuzie can play either the slot or outside, and has superior size. I'd much rather have him in round one. Pass on Baker in round one please!

Butler's scheme seems to be a soft zone with good pass rushers. When the Steelers had Heyward healthy, the pass rush was decent enough with several guys that could get the job done.

But this 6-8 yard cushions from the cornerbacks with limited playmaking in terms of splash plays from the safeties sucks. Mitchell had but one interception last season. Davis also had one, but he dropped two easy throws that should have been interceptions.

I'd like to see TJ Watt or Awuzie be our first pick.

Watt can juice up the pass rush, plays the run well and like his brother has a knack for batting down passes.

Awuzie can add size, speed, and versatility to a defensive backfield that is not very versatile, or fast in general.

The wild card is Obi Melifonwu , who can be a base linebacker in the 4-3, ( Outside weak side LB ) nickel, or dime...maybe in the base 3-4. The more I see and read about Obi, the more I think he fits the modern NFL

Obi is Tall ( 6'4 " ) , Fast ( 4.40 40 ) , with coverage skills. And man can he leap high! A mini linebacker type who's a force vs the run or pass. Tall enough to cover TE's, fast enough to prevent first downs from running QB's or backs catching the ball short and converting a first down. As long as he's protected from pulling offensive lineman, I think he could be star.

I'd be happy with one of these three.

or the Steelers could throw a monkey wrench into the equation and draft a DE

http://www.Invalid Link - Check SN ...ing-d-lineman-might-part-steelers-draft-plan/
For starters, I really think the Steelers have serious interest in Michigan product Chris Wormley. Not only did they supposedly show interest in him at the Senior Bowl and the scouting combine, general manager Kevin Colbert and head coach Mike Tomlin both attended the Michigan pro day a few weeks and that trip reportedly included at least one of them having dinner with Wormley, who measured in at this year’s combine at 6051, 298-pounds.
 
If they have interest in Wormley, that might indicate contract talks with Tuitt might not be that great. I think I mentioned before that if I was Tuitt and his agent, I want the exact same deal Heyward got. I think he can accurately argue his progress/production as a professional is no different than Heyward.

If the Steelers are not prepared over the next 2-3 years with their cap planning to do that, they might have to look for a 3-4 DE type prospect. I compare Wormley to a young Cameron Heyward in my draft analysis. Similar type players that played 4-3 end in college but project more to a 3-4 DE type style.

Or maybe Heyward's injury is more serious than we know? There might be some lingering debilitation?
 
You want a safety in Baker to play the slot?. Baker to me is a center field type with good speed, range and ball skills. However, he's a little small, and could be injury prone in the NFL. Reports say taller TE's have their way with him.

Awuzie can play either the slot or outside, and has superior size. I'd much rather have him in round one. Pass on Baker in round one please!

Butler's scheme seems to be a soft zone with good pass rushers. When the Steelers had Heyward healthy, the pass rush was decent enough with several guys that could get the job done.

But this 6-8 yard cushions from the cornerbacks with limited playmaking in terms of splash plays from the safeties sucks. Mitchell had but one interception last season. Davis also had one, but he dropped two easy throws that should have been interceptions.

I'd like to see TJ Watt or Awuzie be our first pick.

Watt can juice up the pass rush, plays the run well and like his brother has a knack for batting down passes.

Awuzie can add size, speed, and versatility to a defensive backfield that is not very versatile, or fast in general.

The wild card is Obi Melifonwu , who can be a base linebacker in the 4-3, ( Outside weak side LB ) nickel, or dime...maybe in the base 3-4. The more I see and read about Obi, the more I think he fits the modern NFL

Obi is Tall ( 6'4 " ) , Fast ( 4.40 40 ) , with coverage skills. And man can he leap high! A mini linebacker type who's a force vs the run or pass. Tall enough to cover TE's, fast enough to prevent first downs from running QB's or backs catching the ball short and converting a first down. As long as he's protected from pulling offensive lineman, I think he could be star.

I'd be happy with one of these three.

Budda Baker played a ton of snaps in the slot for Washington, often matched up in man coverage over slot WRs. This isn't some new revelation. Hell, there are a glut of people that think he gets tried at corner before he plays safety. He does struggle against taller players. If you want a defense to line up against New England, when they trot out Edelman, Mitchell, and Amendola, you aren't sweating 6'5" WRs that out muscle you, you are sweating small, quick WRs that run away from corners and can still run away from leggy CBs like Melinfonwu.

You don't have to tell me what you read about Awuzie, pretty well versed on him. Did not need the combine and quick times to find guys to latch onto....kind of did that watching film, you know, games....film, not highlights.

Here are some quick clips of Baker working around the LOS....so you can catch up. He isn't considered the 3rd best safety in the draft by many because they are working on their Zen and think the name Budda gives them karma.

http://cowboyswire.usatoday.com/201...da-baker-washington-huskies-bob-sanders-comp/
 
Let me also add this, the fact that he CAN play as a deep safety, he can play as a SS, he can walk down in the box, he can play slot, he can play corner, and HE does play special teams is why you draft him. Big safeties or corners that can walk down in the box but struggle on the deep end are not really that hard to come by.....and if I can get a guy like Awuzie or Baker, who can do multiple things, play multiple positions (corner or safety/inside or outside), then it opens things up for me later in the draft because if I draft a big box safety, Baker plays deep. If I draft a deep safety, Baker can play the slot. If I draft a deep safety and need to cover a TE, I can walk Davis down and Baker can fill his role. Versatile players give options.

But, 6'4" safeties that struggle to read when deep and look to be box guys only...well, they kind of just play in the box. That means, later, if you want to fortify your secondary, you are stuck drafting a guy that fills the opening only. That is just smart draft strategy, guys who can do a variety of things should have greater value. I also like how you state Melinfonwu is tall, can run, and can jump. How does he read plays as a deep safety? Does he struggle coming through the trash to make tackles? Can he walk down on a smaller slot WR and run with him across the field? What about his ball skills? Does he play it well in the air? Can he work with his back to the QB? Does he have route recognition? How does he switch on underneath crossing routes? Does he undercut the rub or run around it?

Wait, you don't get all that from combine numbers or highlight clips.
 
You want a safety in Baker to play the slot?. Baker to me is a center field type with good speed, range and ball skills. However, he's a little small, and could be injury prone in the NFL. Reports say taller TE's have their way with him.

Awuzie can play either the slot or outside, and has superior size. I'd much rather have him in round one. Pass on Baker in round one please!

Butler's scheme seems to be a soft zone with good pass rushers. When the Steelers had Heyward healthy, the pass rush was decent enough with several guys that could get the job done.

But this 6-8 yard cushions from the cornerbacks with limited playmaking in terms of splash plays from the safeties sucks. Mitchell had but one interception last season. Davis also had one, but he dropped two easy throws that should have been interceptions.

I'd like to see TJ Watt or Awuzie be our first pick.

Watt can juice up the pass rush, plays the run well and like his brother has a knack for batting down passes.

Awuzie can add size, speed, and versatility to a defensive backfield that is not very versatile, or fast in general.

The wild card is Obi Melifonwu , who can be a base linebacker in the 4-3, ( Outside weak side LB ) nickel, or dime...maybe in the base 3-4. The more I see and read about Obi, the more I think he fits the modern NFL

Obi is Tall ( 6'4 " ) , Fast ( 4.40 40 ) , with coverage skills. And man can he leap high! A mini linebacker type who's a force vs the run or pass. Tall enough to cover TE's, fast enough to prevent first downs from running QB's or backs catching the ball short and converting a first down. As long as he's protected from pulling offensive lineman, I think he could be star.

I'd be happy with one of these three.
Pure speculation. SMH...

Let me also add this, the fact that he CAN play as a deep safety, he can play as a SS, he can walk down in the box, he can play slot, he can play corner, and HE does play special teams is why you draft him. Big safeties or corners that can walk down in the box but struggle on the deep end are not really that hard to come by.....and if I can get a guy like Awuzie or Baker, who can do multiple things, play multiple positions (corner or safety/inside or outside), then it opens things up for me later in the draft because if I draft a big box safety, Baker plays deep. If I draft a deep safety, Baker can play the slot. If I draft a deep safety and need to cover a TE, I can walk Davis down and Baker can fill his role. Versatile players give options.

But, 6'4" safeties that struggle to read when deep and look to be box guys only...well, they kind of just play in the box. That means, later, if you want to fortify your secondary, you are stuck drafting a guy that fills the opening only. That is just smart draft strategy, guys who can do a variety of things should have greater value. I also like how you state Melinfonwu is tall, can run, and can jump. How does he read plays as a deep safety? Does he struggle coming through the trash to make tackles? Can he walk down on a smaller slot WR and run with him across the field? What about his ball skills? Does he play it well in the air? Can he work with his back to the QB? Does he have route recognition? How does he switch on underneath crossing routes? Does he undercut the rub or run around it?

Wait, you don't get all that from combine numbers or highlight clips.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
 
If they have interest in Wormley, that might indicate contract talks with Tuitt might not be that great. I think I mentioned before that if I was Tuitt and his agent, I want the exact same deal Heyward got. I think he can accurately argue his progress/production as a professional is no different than Heyward.

If the Steelers are not prepared over the next 2-3 years with their cap planning to do that, they might have to look for a 3-4 DE type prospect. I compare Wormley to a young Cameron Heyward in my draft analysis. Similar type players that played 4-3 end in college but project more to a 3-4 DE type style.

Or maybe Heyward's injury is more serious than we know? There might be some lingering debilitation?

Maybe since they are playing that Eagle front, they want guys they can rotate in more to keep Tuitt and Heyward fresh. Seems like I recall Heyward stating the feeling was they were playing too many snaps. Alualu could relieve some of that, but he inked a 2-year deal. Not sure Walton is that guy and if they plan on using some 3-man fronts with Hargrave, then you won't have a fresh Hargrave to use. I'm thinking that they hope Wormley works his way down to them in the 3rd. He is ranked anywhere from late 2nd through the 3rd.

But, what if you draft someone in the first and then watch positions like OLB and DB dry up before the second. I'd rather have Wormley than some much lower ranked tweener DE.
 
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