• Please be aware we've switched the forums to their own URL. (again) You'll find the new website address to be www.steelernationforum.com Thanks
  • Please clear your private messages. Your inbox is close to being full.

As camp opens, there are some questions on offense.

C

Coach

Well-known member
Member
Forefather
Joined
Jan 13, 2015
Messages
15,544
Reaction score
3,801
Points
113
The good news is Ben and the OL are 100% healthy.

The bad news is our skill players at WR, TE, and RB can downgrade the offense and scale back the production from 2015. Read on.

1 ) The loss of Byrant can not be understated. Without him, the offense scored 6.4 points less per game. This is Huge. If one were to take 6.4 points away from the games Bryant played some of our games the Steelers won turn into losses. Bryant also forces the defense to account for him, often keeping a DB back, which opens up the middle routes for other players.

2 ) The loss of Health Miller. Markus Wheaton said he's worried about losing Heath Miller to retirement. He should. Miller was the best all-around run blocking Tight end in the NFL, capable of walling off his man or pulling. As a pass blocker, he can help out a tackle or even block an end by himself. Smart and a leader, he was a reliable pass catcher and red zone target. His replacement Ladarius Green is still hurt and needs to learn the playbook and develop timing and chemistry with Ben.

3 ) Bell's knee. While he looks in shape and motivated, we just don't know how his confidence or knee will hold up. I hope Tomlin eases him into to action.
 
1a) now that Bryant is out for the season, it won't matter where their lockers are in the locker room. This is excellent news.
 
Coach said:
The good news is Ben and the OL are 100% healthy.

The bad news is our skill players at WR, TE, and RB can downgrade the offense and scale back the production from 2015. Read on.

1 ) The loss of Byrant can not be understated. Without him, the offense scored 6.4 points less per game. This is Huge. If one were to take 6.4 points away from the games Bryant played some of our games the Steelers won turn into losses. Bryant also forces the defense to account for him, often keeping a DB back, which opens up the middle routes for other players.

2 ) The loss of Health Miller. Markus Wheaton said he's worried about losing Heath Miller to retirement. He should. Miller was the best all-around run blocking Tight end in the NFL, capable of walling off his man or pulling. As a pass blocker, he can help out a tackle or even block an end by himself. Smart and a leader, he was a reliable pass catcher and red zone target. His replacement Ladarius Green is still hurt and needs to learn the playbook and develop timing and chemistry with Ben.

3 ) Bell's knee. While he looks in shape and motivated, we just don't know how his confidence or knee will hold up. I hope Tomlin eases him into to action.
Click to expand...




I swear to God if this man type this one more time I'm going to kill him. We know we know 6.4....6.4 points a game with out Bryant. WE KNOW
 
But that is 6.4 points last year. With last years roster at last years experience level. That is saying that Wheaton and Coates will not grow as players. That is saying that while Greene doesn't have Miller's hands he also isn't faster. I'm dissapointed in the loss of Bryant too. Pretend he is injured, but Pouncey, and Bell are not. Guys pick up slack in the long run and short term. Hell they were one or two plays from the divisional game without Brown.
 
antdrewjosh said:
I swear to God if this man type this one more time I'm going to kill him. We know we know 6.4....6.4 points a game with out Bryant. WE KNOW
Click to expand...

I think that is significant don't you? Would you rather see this extrapolates to 102.4 points over a 16 game season? LOL

I like Wheaton as a #3 WR or #2 WR flanked by talent, but he just does not make the spectacular plays for scores or big plays the way Bryant can. With Miller gone and Bell on the mend, I do not think the Offense will be as powerful in 2016.
 
Coach since Bryant was suspended you typed it about a gazillion times lol. Like Sask said others will have to step up.. We won a super bowl with Cedric Wilson starting so it can be done with out Bryant and the extra 6.4 points he accounted for.
 
antdrewjosh said:
Coach since Bryant was suspended you typed it about a gazillion times lol. Like Sask said others will have to step up.. We won a super bowl with Cedric Wilson starting so it can be done with out Bryant and the extra 6.4 points he accounted for.
Click to expand...

Okay I won't use names :)

The thread isn't all about #10. The offense lost its best big-play weapon, its best TE in franchise history with his replacement still injured, and has a pro bowl level back coming off his 2nd knee injury. Better?

While camp is a time for optimism, I think some fans are being baited by the media who are hyping the Steelers. The Steelers tend to play their best as the underdog or the team that is lacking in respect. That worries me a little.

The offense is not going to be as explosive as it was last year, we play better QB's this year, and the defense is in transition in the secondary.
 
Pittbsurgh Steelers' Ryan Shazier: Mentally, verbally unleashed in OTAs

Updated on Jun 07, 2016 at 03:51 PM EDT
Pittsburgh Steelers linebacker Ryan Shazier (50) waits to run a drill during an NFL football practice, in Pittsburgh, Wednesday, Jan. 14, 2016. He's taking on a larger role in the Steelers defense, beyond his own at simply playing inside linebacker. (AP Photo/Gene J. Puskar)
Pittsburgh Steelers linebacker Ryan Shazier (50) waits to run a drill during an NFL football practice, in Pittsburgh, Wednesday, Jan. 14, 2016. He's taking on a larger role in the Steelers defense, beyond his own at simply playing inside linebacker. (AP Photo/Gene J. Puskar)
(Gene J. Puskar)
Facebook Icon
Twitter Icon
Email Icon
Text Message Icon
More options Icon

CLOSE
More share options:
By Jacob Klinger | jklinger@pennlive.com
CLOSE

Email the author
Follow on Twitter
PITTSBURGH -- Increasingly, the Pittsburgh Steelers defense belongs to Ryan Shazier.

Vince Williams saw it start to happen late last season as he said the then-second year inside linebacker out of Ohio State clicked into an understanding with head coach Mike Tomlin of his role on the team. Mostly that just meant Shazier knowing what he was doing well enough to be able to direct the rest of the defense.


Where there used to be uncertainty, Shazier now stands at the heart of the unit, barking out calls to his teammates. The always-fast linebacker's talk and play has become instinctive. And on a defense that explained many of its struggles last year as a product of poor communication, it has to be.

"Obviously you've heard about the defenses in Pittsburgh being a very complicated defense," Williams said. "That's not really an understatement. They are."

Pittsburgh had the third-worst pass defense in the league last season. It was partly a product of the team somewhat willingly surrendering small chunks of yardage to prevent deep completions over the top, but in the team's greatest breakdowns, assignments were simply missed.

The math on why Artie Burns remains unsigned

The defense has enough experience in it. There were two veterans in Mike Mitchell and Will Allen at safety last year, William Gay at cornerback, Cameron Heyward up front and Lawrence Timmons beside Shazier.

But it's crucial that Pittsburgh has Shazier pulling the strings, if not also intuitive.

"You're like the liaison between the defensive line and the secondary," Williams said. "Like, you're in the middle."

Shazier said he feels himself still working into the role, yet defensive end Stephon Tuitt has noticed a difference already. The defense is running faster with Shazier getting calls out more quickly, he said.

Most every player looks good and fast in shorts, but thoughts don't move at any different speed. And more than at any point in his career so far, Shazier is playing like less of a man filled with questions and more of, himself, an answer.

"Instead of being like 'Ooh, is that this?' he's not having that stuff anymore," Williams said. "He's just 'Oh, it's that.'"
 
Coach there are alot of guys who are getting better on this team.
 
antdrewjosh said:
I swear to God if this man type this one more time I'm going to kill him. We know we know 6.4....6.4 points a game with out Bryant. WE KNOW
Click to expand...

It seems as if that stat must include 2014 results, but I am not sure that makes any sense to do so as the players we had then are not the players that were there last season. If you look at last season.

In 2015, without Bryant the team scored 21, 43, 12, 20, 24 for an average of 24. For the season the team scored 423 points. That leaves 303 points scored in 11 games for an average of just over 27.5. for a difference of 3.5 ppg.

In addition, in 2 of the games without Bryant, Michael Vick was throwing the ball and in 2 he was in, it was Jones.

Before Bryant came into the 2015 season, the team averaged ~29 passes per game. After coming back from injury, Ben averaged ~42 passes per game.

I'm not arguing that the loss of Bryant doesn't hurt, I just think that using the 6.4 points per game without him is misleading as it is weighting more points per game to the 2014 season where we had Blount instead of Williams, DHB was less productive, Ben wasn't missing for 4 games, etc. Comparing the upcoming season to the 2015 season makes more sense, IMO.
 
If Green gets 800 yards, that is a HUGE plus.
 
Coach said:
The thread isn't all about #10. The offense lost its best big-play weapon
Click to expand...

Uhhhhh, just scanned the interwebs. Not seeing where AB is lost.
 
I'm very interested to see more of Coates. I think the kid has shown some splash play ability. Barring any injury to him, at the end of the season we might forget who Bryant is.
 
Coach said:
The good news is Ben and the OL are 100% healthy.

The bad news is our skill players at WR, TE, and RB can downgrade the offense and scale back the production from 2015. Read on.

1 ) The loss of Byrant can not be understated. Without him, the offense scored 6.4 points less per game. This is Huge. If one were to take 6.4 points away from the games Bryant played some of our games the Steelers won turn into losses. Bryant also forces the defense to account for him, often keeping a DB back, which opens up the middle routes for other players.

2 ) The loss of Health Miller. Markus Wheaton said he's worried about losing Heath Miller to retirement. He should. Miller was the best all-around run blocking Tight end in the NFL, capable of walling off his man or pulling. As a pass blocker, he can help out a tackle or even block an end by himself. Smart and a leader, he was a reliable pass catcher and red zone target. His replacement Ladarius Green is still hurt and needs to learn the playbook and develop timing and chemistry with Ben.

3 ) Bell's knee. While he looks in shape and motivated, we just don't know how his confidence or knee will hold up. I hope Tomlin eases him into to action.
Click to expand...

Last year, Sammy Coates was a rookie and was still learning the system. He'll have a much better grasp on things this year, and if you think the first couple times he gets behind the defense they don't start adjusting to his speed (4.43) and playing a safety over him you're crazy. Lets also not forget our new TE has some wheels of his own, and is a matchup nightmare with his size and speed. Our skill positions are just fine, the offense will be just fine.

Heath is a loss, but I don't think it's going to be as big of a loss as many on here predict. Yes, one of the best all around TE's, but his play had slipped, and there was a reason he retired. His blocking was even starting to slip as well. What will be missed, was his leadership in the locker room. But we have guys ready to step up and fill that void.

Bell's knee, if you think Bell's confidence is going to be affected, you don't follow him on any type of social media. The man OOZES confidence, his work ethic rivals Brown and Harrison. As long as he can protect himself from the Bengals targeting him, his knee will hold up just fine. Lets not forget he isn't shredding his knee by making cuts, both his injuries were direct hits or tackles to his knee, and by one team...
 
1 Green is faster than a declining Heath. That should upgrade the pass O.
2. Bell is in a contract year.And is a damn good pass catcher. Those catches will help upgrade the pass O.
3. As mentioned Coates will be better this year, in the playoffs he showed glimpses. Which will help upgrade the O.
4. Wheaton is in a contract year, and is more on the same page with Ben. Which should help upgrade the O.
5. Coach isn't running our O, which will help upgrade the O.
6 4>1 thats arithmetic
7 Hi
 
Last edited:
ark steel said:
I'm not arguing that the loss of Bryant doesn't hurt, I just think that using the 6.4 points per game without him is misleading as it is weighting more points per game to the 2014 season where we had Blount instead of Williams, DHB was less productive, Ben wasn't missing for 4 games, etc. Comparing the upcoming season to the 2015 season makes more sense, IMO.
Click to expand...


We agree it hurts. The stat is not just 2 game, its a large sample of 21 games played where the team averages 6.4 points less per game without him. Byrant opens things up for the other players. That can not be discounted. Teams have to repsect his speed and play making ability, so they back off. Without him, we have no proven deep threat, and the receivers will see tighter traffic on the medium to the short stuff.

Big plays and TD's win games. Bryant did both. Coates has large shoes to fill.
 
Coach said:
We agree it hurts. The stat is not just 2 game, its a large sample of 21 games played where the team averages 6.4 points less per game without him. Byrant opens things up for the other players. That can not be discounted. Teams have to repsect his speed and play making ability, so they back off. Without him, we have no proven deep threat, and the receivers will see tighter traffic on the medium to the short stuff.

Big plays and TD's win games. Bryant did both. Coates has large shoes to fill.
Click to expand...

But you will agree Coates was known for this in college and in limited time has shown it in the NFL
 
Coach said:
We agree it hurts. The stat is not just 2 game, its a large sample of 21 games played where the team averages 6.4 points less per game without him. Byrant opens things up for the other players. That can not be discounted. Teams have to repsect his speed and play making ability, so they back off. Without him, we have no proven deep threat, and the receivers will see tighter traffic on the medium to the short stuff.

Big plays and TD's win games. Bryant did both. Coates has large shoes to fill.
Click to expand...

Where did I say it was 2 games? I said including the 2014 plan year which was much higher than the 2015 plan year may not be appropriate. And the 2015 Plan Year should be more indicative of what should be expected for 2016 than 2014 which had considerably different personnel.
 
Last edited:
It's very hard to try and predict offensive production year-to-year even when everything is the same, let alone when there are some major roster turnover.

Sure... thing are going to be different. We don't have Bryant (511 snaps) and Miller (924 snaps).

I also think people need to realize Wheaton was used JUST AS MUCH as Bryant last season. In no way did Bryant "supplant" Wheaton. They shared snaps almost completely equally throughout the last 12 games of the season (in fact they had identical snap counts after the bye week to the end of the year).

If Wheaton goes up to 75% participation this year (say going from 700 to 800 snaps) and Heyward-Bey staying the same (25%). We are looking at only about 400 snaps for Coates all season. Certainly not a make or break amount. Certainly not enough to decide the whole fate of our offense.

And I still think the much greater impact is Ledarius Green and his potential 900 snaps in this offense. I have no clue how that will impact our run and pass offense at all. It is Green's success or failure in the offense that likely could lead to us using Coates more/less this season (if they abandon using a tight end more often and go 4-wide).

I'm really not worried about Wheaton at all. He showed pretty significant improvement in TD's and efficiency between 2014 (750 snaps) and 2015 (700 snaps). If he goes up to 800 snaps (maybe more) I think you will get 900 yards+ and 6-8 TD's. That's a minimum.

And that means we need to make up about 500-600 yards and 3-4 TD's with Coates in his potential 400-500 snap counts. Certainly doable.
 
I thought Jesse James looked good at TE for a rookie with the few chances he had last year. Heath was a GREAT TE but I'm not real worried about the position.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top