Deflate-gate......God I hate the Pats!!!!

[Steel G]

Looking at this in another light, we can see that the NFL has left itself a whole lot of options in this matter. What's telling to me is not what the league said or the information provided, but what it didn't say or provide.

1. The league admits that all of the Pats** and Colts footballs were checked by the ref in accordance with league guidelines at the specified time prior to the game. The league states that all footballs were within regulation at that time. What they don't say is what psi were the footballs at (Pats** or Colts). Do they just check them without writing down what the initial psi for each ball is?

2. We've heard the 2lbs under inflation level for the Pats** balls from ESPN and other sources. In their statement, the NFL seems to studiously avoid mentioning a specific number. This allows them to say that the reporters who have used 2 Lbs psi were mistaken.

3. Also, we are only told that the Colts balls checked in at regulation at all times. This does not mean that they did not lose any psi, just that they were within regulation at all times. Has anyone seen a report about the Colts footballs losing air pressure yet remaining within regulations. It would have been nice if the NFL clarified this point.

4. There have been conflicting reports as to whether the Pats** footballs were re-inflated at half-time or the 12 extra footballs supplied by the Pats** replaced the under inflated footballs. Clarification on this point would be nice. Maybe I missed it.

In essence, the NFL has provided a statement that confirmed the basics of what we know, but dodged some of the important issues. I wouldn't put it past them to make this up as they go along. The outcome of their investigation to be determined by how much outrage or negative publicity remains after the Super Bowl. In essence, the NFL is investigating the Pats** for possibly cheating while leaving itself enough wiggle room to "fudge" the outcome of that investigation (i.e. cheat).

The league's silence is deafening. And they're only doing it because the SB is right around the corner. In a perfect world, the ratings for the SB would have a big drop, but we know that's never going to happen. So we sit and wait for them to throw out their usual nonsense where something went down but it wasn't all that bad, this team or guy gets this fine and that fine and we hope you all forget about it and go back to buying Sunday ticket, placing your bets and drafting your fantasy players. Nothing to see here, move along.

 

[deljzc]

Peter King is reporting that 11 balls were not EXACTLY 2 psi under the 12.5 limit (i.e. 10.5). In fact most were only 1 psi under. Again, you can't round to the nearest integer in this case, yet all the reporters are (because they are getting their information from people that weren't even in the room).

And Aaron Rogers has confirmed he likes a more inflated ball as opposed to an underinflated ball. Maybe Andrew Luck is the same way.

In the same Peter King article, it was Brady AND Manning and TWENTY OTHER QUARTERBACKS who signed the petition to allow each team to create their own game balls and bring them from game to game. Prior to this, the home team provided 24 balls that were randomly kind is distributed to both teams prior to the game. Sounds like a majority of QB's were in favor of this.

No need to worry about the truth around here when it doesn't aid the pitchfork cause....

 

[Superman]

delz, the colts did tell the NFL about the underinflated balls the last time they played. I'd suspect they should have followed up on that to see if anything was done, but that's on them. fact is, they reported it during a regular season game, when the stakes weren't as high.

nfl swept it under the rug.

when jackson intercepted the ball, he gave it to an equipment manager. jackson said he didnt notice anything. the colts equipment manager did. flags went up. especially because of the previous game between the two teams.

while it's not a big deal about the balls being underinflated ... fact is it provides more evidence that the pats do not play by the rules all the time. while QBs may like balls to be a certain way, I'm sure DBs do, too.

I've provided previous documentation showing how deep Kraft's hand is in the NFL prostate cookie jar of funds, and IMO, this is specifically why the Patriots are treated "differently" than the other 31 teams. Also why the other 31 owners look the other way.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

Peter King is reporting that 11 balls were not EXACTLY 2 psi under the 12.5 limit (i.e. 10.5). In fact most were only 1 psi under. Again, you can't round to the nearest integer in this case, yet all the reporters are (because they are getting their information from people that weren't even in the room).

And Aaron Rogers has confirmed he likes a more inflated ball as opposed to an underinflated ball. Maybe Andrew Luck is the same way.

In the same Peter King article, it was Brady AND Manning and TWENTY OTHER QUARTERBACKS who signed the petition to allow each team to create their own game balls and bring them from game to game. Prior to this, the home team provided 24 balls that were randomly kind is distributed to both teams prior to the game. Sounds like a majority of QB's were in favor of this.

No need to worry about the truth around here when it doesn't aid the pitchfork cause....

I still have to ask. Were the balls under the limit? Were they only the Pats** balls? After either re-inflation or swapping out, did the footballs used in the second half become under inflated? And again, we get to the questions the NFL is not answering: 1) Did the Colts footballs lose any psi at all during the first half? 2) Did the Colts footballs lose any psi at all during the second half? 3) Did the Pats** footballs lose any psi during the second half.
If the NFL would answer those questions (which they have the answers to), it would shed a whole lot of light on the issue. So again, I say it seems like the NFL is hedging it's bets.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that the Pats** cheated. Does not liking Belichick make that opinion easier to come by? Yep. But so far neither the Pats** nor the NFL has presented any evidence that shows that anything other than the "human element" is responsible for the discrepancy.

It's also more than strange that King's article (do you have a link?) is coming out more than a week after the investigation began, when that information was available to the NFL immediately.

 

[Superman]

if the NFL were on board with the Pats** balls being x-amount under inflated, why did the re-inflate them to the pre-specified amount? JUST to appease the Colts?

 

[deljzc]

if the NFL were on board with the Pats** balls being x-amount under inflated, why did the re-inflate them to the pre-specified amount? JUST to appease the Colts?

I don't know. It's very sketchy to me the rules about "re-inflating" the balls during cold weather games to maintain 12.5 psi. I guess if a team complains about it, the MO is the referees check again at halftime and uses the home team's provided gauge and pump to re-inflate the same balls. Has this ever happened before?

Again, the whole handling of footballs is just too random and haphazard to assume anything. Having footballs underinflated at halftime of a wet, cold game doesn't sound that abnormal. Not unless this is something that is checked for in a LOT of cold, wet games.

To me, this reeks more of a situation that is very common and being exploited by the Colts as a "gotcha" moment than an actual deliberate rules violation or some systemic approach by the Patriots to tamper with the balls during the game.

In fact, if the plan was to set a "gotcha" trap for the Patriots, then it would make sense that the Colts did everything in their power to make sure their footballs were inflated as much as possible prior to the game.

 

[JupiterBnG]

Peter King is reporting that 11 balls were not EXACTLY 2 psi under the 12.5 limit (i.e. 10.5). In fact most were only 1 psi under. Again, you can't round to the nearest integer in this case, yet all the reporters are (because they are getting their information from people that weren't even in the room).

Seems to me that the official report says that 11 of the balls were 2psi below the mandated minimum pressure of 12.5 psi, so it's immaterial what the original starting pressure was, as long as it was tested to be within the 12.5 - 13.5psi acceptable range.

And Aaron Rogers has confirmed he likes a more inflated ball as opposed to an underinflated ball. Maybe Andrew Luck is the same way.

"More inflated" does not necessarily mean "outside of the pressure range prescribed by the rules." Maybe he likes them closer to 13.5psi? Considering you selectively insist that we don't have enough specific, detailed information, it's ironic that you throw out this "more inflated" claim as if it vindicates your arguments.

In the same Peter King article, it was Brady AND Manning and TWENTY OTHER QUARTERBACKS who signed the petition to allow each team to create their own game balls and bring them from game to game. Prior to this, the home team provided 24 balls that were randomly kind is distributed to both teams prior to the game. Sounds like a majority of QB's were in favor of this.

The salient fact that you're overlooking is that Brady being the force behind this rule change in 2006 actually lends credence to the possibility that he is such a control freak and particular about the way he likes his footballs, that he would go to the extent of illegally altering them. The one good thing that came from the rule is that it allows each team to bring their own balls, so that the home team can't choose to give them a ball which, while otherwise "legal" is in some state that makes it more difficult for the visiting team to use it (newer, harder, slicker, whatever). That's a GOOD thing that came from the rule - but the bottom line is that Brady clearly went to such lengths to get that rule through because he feels strongly about being able to use balls that are specifically to his liking. What's so hard about taking the next logical step and asking if perhaps one of the things he prefers is (illegally) underinflated balls, and if over many years he hasn't found a way (at least in home games) to adulterate the balls on the sideline? How many games has he possibly played where no one has suspected that balls were underinflated? Keep in mind that the Spygate cheating went on for years before they were finally caught, why isn't it possible that he's been doctoring balls on the sidelines for years as well? They certainly have an institutional history of it under the Belichick regime.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

I still have to ask. Were the balls under the limit? Were they only the Pats** balls? After either re-inflation or swapping out, did the footballs used in the second half become under inflated? And again, we get to the questions the NFL is not answering: 1) Did the Colts footballs lose any psi at all during the first half? 2) Did the Colts footballs lose any psi at all during the second half? 3) Did the Pats** footballs lose any psi during the second half.
If the NFL would answer those questions (which they have the answers to), it would shed a whole lot of light on the issue. So again, I say it seems like the NFL is hedging it's bets.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that the Pats** cheated. Does not liking Belichick make that opinion easier to come by? Yep. But so far neither the Pats** nor the NFL has presented any evidence that shows that anything other than the "human element" is responsible for the discrepancy.

It's also more than strange that King's article (do you have a link?) is coming out more than a week after the investigation began, when that information was available to the NFL immediately.

Edit: In regards to the TWENTY OTHER QUARTERBACKS who signed the petition. Signing a petition and spearheading the effort are two different things. Someone comes to my door and asks me to sign a petition to lower property taxes in my town an I sign it. That doesn't mean I thought of the issue, drew up the petition and presented it to the mayor. I simply signed a petition that someone else did all the work on because I was in agreement with the basic tenets.

 

[JupiterBnG]

In fact, if the plan was to set a "gotcha" trap for the Patriots, then it would make sense that the Colts did everything in their power to make sure their footballs were inflated as much as possible prior to the game.

Again, to what end for the Colts? What did they stand to gain? Did they expect the referee to declare the Pats had forfeit and award the game to the Colts? Did they expect to lose and have the Pats' win vacated on Monday by the League office? What do you peg the probability of either of those things happening at? I say 0% and 0%, respectively.

 

[Confluence]

So the refs took the cold, wet balls at halftime that were deflated by the weather and put more air in them. Makes sense they wouldn't "continue" to lose air pressure.

I still don't have a clue how the Colts balls didn't lose any air pressure during a cold, wet game. Scientifically, that's impossible.

About 10 pages after you criticized anyone and everyone on the board who dared to disagree with your faulty logic.

Grab a pair, apologize for acting like a dork and move on. You look more insipid with each post.

"when you find yourself in a hole, first, stop digging"

 

[Vader]

Again, to what end for the Colts? What did they stand to gain? Did they expect the referee to declare the Pats had forfeit and award the game to the Colts? Did they expect to lose and have the Pats' win vacated on Monday by the League office? What do you peg the probability of either of those things happening at? I say 0% and 0%, respectively.

Also how did the Colts suspend the laws of physics on the one ball of the pats** 12 that didn't get deflated? Let's think about this:

1. All the pats** balls EXCEPT one was deflated.

2. None of the Colts were deflated

3. All the balls were fine after the game

So how did the Colts inflate that one ball on the pats** sideline? How did it not conform to the same elements as the 11?

What truly makes more sense? That the Colts did all this OR that the team that has already been caught cheating was cheating again? Which one explains all the evidence including the one properly inflated pats** ball? I think this is pretty easy.

 

[SteelerAl]

I don't know why anyone is talking about which QBs signed a petition or lobbied the NFL to change the rules. That has nothing to do with Deflate-gate.

 

[SteelerAl]

Here is the latest:

Jay Glazer ‏@JayGlazer · 23m23 minutes ago
Breaking news: sources tell @FOXSports the NFL has zeroed in on a locker room attendant w Patriots who ... http://m.tmi.me/1eXHpm

Breaking news: sources tell @FOXSports the NFL has zeroed in on a locker room attendant w Patriots who allegedly took balls from officials locker room to another area on way to field. Sources say they have interviewed him and additionally have video. Still gauging if any wrong doing occurred with him but he is strong person of interest

 

[Steel G]

I don't know why anyone is talking about which QBs signed a petition or lobbied the NFL to change the rules. That has nothing to do with Deflate-gate.

It matters to those who want to deflect attention away from the real problem.

 

[deljzc]

Again, to what end for the Colts? What did they stand to gain? Did they expect the referee to declare the Pats had forfeit and award the game to the Colts? Did they expect to lose and have the Pats' win vacated on Monday by the League office? What do you peg the probability of either of those things happening at? I say 0% and 0%, respectively.

I think the purpose was to get into Brady's head. To try and rattle him. The game was 14-7 Patriots and things did not look good for the Colts (except the scoreboard) when the Colts supposedly reported it to the NFL official.

Why do coaches sometimes just randomly ask the ump in baseball to check out the pitcher's pockets? Do they do it when they are up 6-1? No way. They do it when it's close and maybe they can do something to change the tide of the game.

There should be some video evidence (there are almost 50% more cameras in an AFCCG than a regular season game) if the equipment staff really was tampering with the footballs. Maybe that happened. Maybe it didn't.

All I'm saying is the psi differences found in the balls during this game in this weather does not PROVE they did that. In fact that's a HUGE stretch in my opinion.

 

[Confluence]

I think the purpose was to get into Brady's head. To try and rattle him. The game was 14-7 Patriots and things did not look good for the Colts (except the scoreboard) when the Colts supposedly reported it to the NFL official.

Why do coaches sometimes just randomly ask the ump in baseball to check out the pitcher's pockets? Do they do it when they are up 6-1? No way. They do it when it's close and maybe they can do something to change the tide of the game.

There should be some video evidence (there are almost 50% more cameras in an AFCCG than a regular season game) if the equipment staff really was tampering with the footballs. Maybe that happened. Maybe it didn't.

All I'm saying is the psi differences found in the balls during this game in this weather does not PROVE they did that. In fact that's a HUGE stretch in my opinion.

Weird. You said it was scientific fact about 10 pages ago.

Taking a page from Peter King's softening the blow writings?

 

[JupiterBnG]

I don't know why anyone is talking about which QBs signed a petition or lobbied the NFL to change the rules. That has nothing to do with Deflate-gate.

Except, as I already said, it establishes that Tom Brady is very sensitive to and and very specific in his preferences for the condition of the game balls he uses. The fact that he would propose and lobby heavily for a rule that gives him more control over the condition of game balls suggests a greater possibility that he could also be capable of altering game balls illegally to suit his preferences if the rules don't go far enough.

 

[SteelerAl]

Except, as I already said, it establishes that Tom Brady is very sensitive to and and very specific in his preferences for the condition of the game balls he uses. The fact that he would propose and lobby heavily for a rule that gives him more control over the condition of game balls suggests a greater possibility that he could also be capable of altering game balls illegally to suit his preferences if the rules don't go far enough.

So does Peyton Manning cheat too? He lobbied hard for that rule.

I think the balls probably were tampered with, but you are working too hard to find evidence that supports the conclusion you've already made.

 

[JupiterBnG]

So does Peyton Manning cheat too? He lobbied hard for that rule.

I think the balls probably were tampered with, but you are working too hard to find evidence that supports the conclusion you've already made.

Again, the rule provides an element of fairness that was needed, and it makes sense that other quarterbacks would have been on board. But none of those other quarterbacks actually came up with the proposal, or directly addressed the rules committee. They all supported it, and to varying degrees benefit from it, but it was so singularly important to Brady that he actually did something to make it happen.

And I'm not citing it as evidence, it's simply supporting facts that can be interpreted however one likes, but certainly can be shown to establish a certain behavior on Brady's part. Like a character witness - it's not evidence that cheating did or did not happen, but it speaks to Brady's motivations, which, while not provable, can exacerbate or mitigate the eventual judgment that IS based on the evidence.

 

[Vader]

So does Peyton Manning cheat too? He lobbied hard for that rule.

I think the balls probably were tampered with, but you are working too hard to find evidence that supports the conclusion you've already made.

It points to the fact that Brady lied when he said he couldn't tell the difference. So the guy that lobbied the NFL to allow QBs more leeway in working the balls can't tell the difference in the balls that were worked and the ones that weren't? Then WTF is he bitching about?

 

[Confluence]

I wonder what Dri Archer thinks of this?

 

[Lunar]

I wonder what Dri Archer thinks of this?

He's thinking, don't trade me for josh Gordon

 

[Superman]

I don't know. It's very sketchy to me the rules about "re-inflating" the balls during cold weather games to maintain 12.5 psi. I guess if a team complains about it, the MO is the referees check again at halftime and uses the home team's provided gauge and pump to re-inflate the same balls. Has this ever happened before?

Again, the whole handling of footballs is just too random and haphazard to assume anything. Having footballs underinflated at halftime of a wet, cold game doesn't sound that abnormal. Not unless this is something that is checked for in a LOT of cold, wet games.

To me, this reeks more of a situation that is very common and being exploited by the Colts as a "gotcha" moment than an actual deliberate rules violation or some systemic approach by the Patriots to tamper with the balls during the game.

In fact, if the plan was to set a "gotcha" trap for the Patriots, then it would make sense that the Colts did everything in their power to make sure their footballs were inflated as much as possible prior to the game.

president of Wilson says Belichick is full of **** with his explanation.

http://deadspin.com/nfl-football-manufacturer-also-says-bill-belichick-is-f-1681802079

It's not just Bill Nye the Science Guy who isn't buying Bill Belichick's involved and theoretical explanation for how the Patriots's underinflated footballs might have gotten that way without any nefarious tactics. Representatives from Wilson, the company that makes the NFL's footballs, say that Belichick's ball story doesn't wash.
Bill Nye The Science Guy Says Bill Belichick Is Full Of ****

Science expert Bill Nye appeared on Good Morning America today to unequivocally call out Bill… Read more screengrabber.​deadspin.​com

Belichick mooted the idea that the difference in atmospheric conditions between where the footballs were inflated before the game and where they were measured at halftime—and found to be underinflated—could go to explain the reported drop in pressure. (It doesn't explain why the Colts' balls, which were prepared at the same time and place, were still at regulation psi.)

"That's BS," said Wilson rep Jim Jenkins, who explained to Boston.com the process of making footballs and how they maintain their integrity until game time. (Unless you put it in a freezer, he said, it's not going to fluctuate wildly under natural atmospheric changes for "maybe a year or two" after being manufactured.) And then again, for emphasis: "That's BS, man."

Another Wilson rep says something catastrophic—and likely intentional—would have to happen to the ball's internal air bladder to bring about the deflation the Patriots' balls are accused of undergoing.

"Well it couldn't [deflate] unless something happened to a bladder, but that really doesn't happen and there's no other real way," Wilson's director of experiential marketing Molly Wallace said. "

The real answer is that you should have paid more attention in school, maybe gone into a STEM field, and maybe you wouldn't be blogging 17 blogs about soft footballs as if this, any of this, could possibly matter in any way, ever, to anyone.

[Boston.com]

 

[deljzc]

Atmospheric pressure will not change the ball pressure.

Temperature and moisture can.

AGAIN... I never said or endorsed anything Bill Belichick said in his press conference on Saturday. I listened to it and it was all over science-wise. I agree some of the stuff he said does not compute. When Belichick said "rubbing the football" or "atmospheric pressure" can effect a football both of those things are incorrect (at least incorrect to the level it won't effect the pressure measurably or significantly to matter).

From my research though, moisture and temperature can GREATLY effect pressure in a football.

 

[cpollock]

This is an interesting report .. so the Colts were tipped off by the Ravens to look for this ..



Apparently the balls in question were RE-inflated .. so WHY didn't they lose pressure in the second half ..

very interesting !!